Border Patrol Agent killed last night in Big Bend

seeker_two · Nov 19, 2017

Double Naught Spy said:
A "lot" of snipers...

Okay, let's put snipers on the border. How hard will that be. Now we figure snipers are good to 1000 yards on a reasonable basis, but in field conditions, that can be much more difficult and require numerous shots for a kill, so let's call it 600 with a high level of certainty.

So the border is 1954 miles with Mexico. Some 700 miles are already fenced, but the reality of it is that the fence there pretty much sucks as people go under it, over it, and through it. So converting miles to yards gives us 3439040 yards. Divide that by 1200 (600 yard radius) gives us the need for 2866 non-overlapping sniper fields of fire. It isn't enough to have a sniper in a given position, but a sniper team of at least 2, more if you are going to include actual security and such. You would minimally need three shifts a day, if not six. Assuming two man teams, that would mean 5732 operators on duty at any one time, or 17196 a day for 3 shifts or 34392 operators with 6 shifts if you don't want to overstress them to the point of being ineffective. Assuming you aren't working them more than 40 hours a week, you will need 40% more to cover the weekends, so you will need 24075 to 48149 plus additional members to cover illness, vacation, etc.

So we just need to ramp up sniper school operations (which will cost millions) and train the additional 10s of thousands of snipers that will have to be vetted personnel, of course. They will take 10s of millions to train and another 100 million a year or so to pay, not to mention additional overhead of supervision and such. Never mind all of the improvements to the landscape that will have to be made to make sure all of the sniper positions are actually suitable.

But otherwise, yeah, we can just whip that together in the mean time while we are waiting on a wall to be built.

Good point.

What's the numbers on gunship patrols with thermal imaging and air strikes?

boomgoesthedynamite · Nov 20, 2017

Just need a few hundred of these...

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boomgoesthedynamite · Nov 20, 2017

When I was driving in from Arizona yesterday, about an hour outside of El Paso there were 3 helos and about 50 vehicles at the side of the road in both directions of I-10 and it looked like they were wrapping up an operation as everyone seemed fairly calm. Lots of CBP and FBI labels. I know this is fairly far, but I wonder if that is related.

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Charlie Primero · Nov 20, 2017

Illegals beat the Border Patrolman to death with rocks.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017...er-agent-crushing-face-skull-rocks-says-nbpc/

Charlie Primero · Nov 20, 2017

grasshopperglock said:
Have you read up on Soros? Globalism. Population replacement and the 4th turning?

Yes, but that's deep, esoteric stuff that takes years of study to fully comprehend.

I have been a financial supporter of Richard Grove's work at https://tragedyandhope.com for many years.

Davetex · Nov 20, 2017

TAZ · Nov 20, 2017

I always found it ironic that we can paint a bright red line around a politicians airplane and authorize the use of deadly force to protect it; yet we can’t seem to do that for the nation as a whole.

This border battle isn’t one of tools, walls, guns, tech, or even money. It’s a battle of wills. The Progressives want to destroy this country so they can “rebuild it” in their vision of Socialist “utopia”. Pretty straight forward Cloward-Piven strategy. The illegals are simply economic parasites that will eventually implode local economies across the nation like Cali. Then people will scream for help.

We have a plethora of tools on the books that would work if people had the will to use them. It’s illegal to employ illegals. Why aren’t we shutting down thousands of businesses from small (janitorial companies) to large (Tyson chicken)?

Absolutely no will to fight. Not now and not in the near future.

Chirpy · Nov 20, 2017

grasshopperglock said:
Operation Wetback of 1954 holds more answers.

Amen. Hard to believe we had the national will to do that once.

easy rider · Nov 20, 2017

TAZ said:
I always found it ironic that we can paint a bright red line around a politicians airplane and authorize the use of deadly force to protect it; yet we can’t seem to do that for the nation as a whole.

This border battle isn’t one of tools, walls, guns, tech, or even money. It’s a battle of wills. The Progressives want to destroy this country so they can “rebuild it” in their vision of Socialist “utopia”. Pretty straight forward Cloward-Piven strategy. The illegals are simply economic parasites that will eventually implode local economies across the nation like Cali. Then people will scream for help.

We have a plethora of tools on the books that would work if people had the will to use them. It’s illegal to employ illegals. Why aren’t we shutting down thousands of businesses from small (janitorial companies) to large (Tyson chicken)?

Absolutely no will to fight. Not now and not in the near future.

The fines are so small that it is cost effective just to hire more illegal aliens.
I once was going to work for Iowa Beef in Eastern Washington state where about 75% of the employees were illegals. They got raided about twice a month at that time. I found a better job.

GonzoLonzo · Nov 20, 2017

pronstar said:
If a wall doesn't work, how come the White House and prisons all have 'em?

You don't just put up a wall and walk away. You put up a wall then patrol/defend it.

Way easier to defend than open terrain.

And the border wall in San Diego has been extremely effective. Of course, only wealthy Californians can have a politically correct wall.

All other walls are racist.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-borderwall-update-20170124-story.html

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Well Bud, that wall did nothing to stop alien traffic. All it did was push it east into the mountains where no one could see it. The same numbers, if not more are crossing through an area where it is harder to work and where less agents are assigned. So now, more get through without even being slowed down. But they sure have convinced a lot of people that it's working.

pronstar · Nov 20, 2017

Ahhh...don't interpret my want of a more secure border (wall or what have you) with a sealed border.
We need a way to allow for legal immigration across the border in both directions.

Some would say that failed immigration reform meant that once-migrant workers, fearful of not "getting back across", simply stayed here.
I think this is part of the picture, but in the end our border issues are incredibly complex.

But just allowing free, unsupervised and unrestricted passage doesn't make sense, and few countries (evel socialist ones) really do this.

JeepFiend · Nov 20, 2017

All I can say is, my last trip to Ensenada, there were 6' diameter holes cut in a chain link fence with 20 Mexicans standing next to it, waiting for La Migra to drive by before they made their dash down to the mall at the bottom of the hill. Right at the border checkpoint, there was a nice solid metal fence. 3-4 miles south, is was a whole different story....now that's been about 10 years, so maybe it's changed. But I don't remember the border fence helping a lot. Hell, I remember one incident where like 200 aliens charged the freeway because once they got to the center divider, it was considered a safe space the cops couldn't stop them.

Younggun · Nov 20, 2017

On the sniper thing.

No need to completely cover the full length of the wall. Snipers have a strong psychological effect. Just need enough to catch a noticeable portion of illegals and suddenly crossing the border would become a much less appetizing endevour. Move the snipers around and have them out on random days after an initial surge. Not that we'll ever do it.

I could make a crude comment about how coyotes are often hung on the fence after being shot, but I won't.

TheDan · Nov 21, 2017

Walls work well for Isreal, but their border is smaller and their "problem neighbor" more dangerous so the cost benefit is good. I'm afraid building a wall for our southern border wouldn't be economically sustainable. Like mentioned above it's not just building the thing, it takes a lot of maintenance and patrolling to make it useful.

A better method of reducing illegal immigration is to remove all the incentives for it to occur. No more free school, free healthcare, and welfare. End the federal "drug war" to remove the incentive for organized crime. End sanctuary cites and actually enforce the laws on what illegal aliens can't do (buy property, open back accounts, get state ID, etc...). All these things would be better for us in the long run as well.

I think the above has even less of a chance of the wall happening

Charlie Primero · Nov 21, 2017

TheDan said:
A better method of reducing illegal immigration is to remove all the incentives for it to occur.

Democrats and Wall Street boot-licking Republicucks Ted Cruz and John Cornyn won't ever let that happen.

A physical wall defeats their treason, and will be cheaper to police in the long-run.

Texan-in-Training · Nov 21, 2017

I hope this link works...
https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/off...ersreward_11202017_facebook&utm_content=txgov

Younggun · Nov 21, 2017

Charlie Primero said:
Democrats and Wall Street boot-licking Republicucks Ted Cruz and John Cornyn won't ever let that happen.

A physical wall defeats their treason, and will be cheaper to police in the long-run.

Yep, that damned Ted Cruz. How dare he not make demands in the senate for things we know would have no traction.

I hear he moved on from the mud slinging of the primaries and works with Trump as well. *gasp*

easy rider · Nov 21, 2017

TheDan said:
Walls work well for Isreal, but their border is smaller and their "problem neighbor" more dangerous so the cost benefit is good. I'm afraid building a wall for our southern border wouldn't be economically sustainable. Like mentioned above it's not just building the thing, it takes a lot of maintenance and patrolling to make it useful.

A better method of reducing illegal immigration is to remove all the incentives for it to occur. No more free school, free healthcare, and welfare. End the federal "drug war" to remove the incentive for organized crime. End sanctuary cites and actually enforce the laws on what illegal aliens can't do (buy property, open back accounts, get state ID, etc...). All these things would be better for us in the long run as well.

I think the above has even less of a chance of the wall happening

I'm not actually against the wall, I believe a barrier is a deterrent, but yes, eliminating incentives certainly would help. I understand that many of the jobs of an illegal alien are not considered jobs most citizens would care to do, but allowing it without proper work visas has made it an incentive as well. I don't believe in not allowing aliens entrance into the U.S., just that they should be properly vetted. I also believe that slapping the hands of those that do provide work to illegal aliens has made it too easy for them not to employ illegals. Stiffer penalties and possible shutdowns of businesses that purposely employ illegal aliens should be enacted.

Younggun · Nov 21, 2017

easy rider said:
I'm not actually against the wall, I believe a barrier is a deterrent, but yes, eliminating incentives certainly would help. I understand that many of the jobs of an illegal alien are not considered jobs most citizens would care to do, but allowing it without proper work visas has made it an incentive as well. I don't believe in not allowing aliens entrance into the U.S., just that they should be properly vetted. I also believe that slapping the hands of those that do provide work to illegal aliens has made it too easy for them not to employ illegals. Stiffer penalties and possible shutdowns of businesses that purposely employ illegal aliens should be enacted.

I'm not really sold on the "jobs Americans won't do" argument. I really can't think of any jobs today that Americans haven't done or wouldn't do in the past. IF Armericans are turning down these jobs I'd say it would be a sympton of being spoiled by the welfare state.

That said, I'm open to change that opinion if examples are presented that refute it.I'm also not "anti-immigration". Immigration is needed at times, sometimes its detrimental. For most of the history of the US immigration was controlled based on the needs of the nation. This idea that we've always welcomed all immigrants is completely false.

Edit to add- I don't mean to imply the idea of mass immigration is yours.

easy rider · Nov 21, 2017

Younggun said:
I'm not really sold on the "jobs Americans won't do" argument. I really can't think of any jobs today that Americans haven't done or wouldn't do in the past. IF Armericans are turning down these jobs I'd say it would be a sympton of being spoiled by the welfare state.

That said, I'm open to change that opinion if examples are presented that refute it.I'm also not "anti-immigration". Immigration is needed at times, sometimes its detrimental. For most of the history of the US immigration was controlled based on the needs of the nation. This idea that we've always welcomed all immigrants is completely false.

Edit to add- I don't mean to imply the idea of mass immigration is yours.

Implication not taken, but I don't really have a problem with work visas, at least it's vetted or should be.

Border Patrol Agent killed last night in Big Bend

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