Proposition 1 2018 Ballot

TexasBrandon · Feb 20, 2018

"Texas should replace the property tax system with an appropriate consumption tax equivalent".

Thought on this? It's the last thing on the ballot I am trying to research and really understand the ramifications of "yay" or "nay". Based on things I have read, the tax rate could go up to 23% on buying goods. Meanwhile, they seem to raise property taxes to something ridiculous. I've been getting reamed year after year on increases from both of my properties.

I'm thinking a "Nay" on this one and a "yay" on prop 10 which caps it at 4% and then needs voter approval for more. I can't see too many folks liking a massive tax hike on bought goods. On the other hand it could spark better spending habits but that is a personal problem not a government problem. Also, what about those renting properties, their monthly rent would probably sky rocket since investors and owners of those properties would be on the hook for repairs and other wild spending.

The more I write this and think about it, the more I think a Nay would be appropriate. Thoughts?

oldag · Feb 20, 2018

I generally oppose any new tax. Somehow the old one never seems to go away.

TexasBrandon · Feb 20, 2018

Yeah the more I think about it the more torn I am. I mean on one hand, I can choose to spend how I want and then the taxes get paid. Illegals would also be paying taxes since they wouldn't have a choice. On the other hand, while the current system sucks, limiting it and revising it could provide better outcomes but those that avoid taxes through various methods get a break on my dime. Even if the tax rate hit 23% I would be paying less into property tax. My main home I have an escrow but my acreage that I own is paid in full so it would just be land that I own that couldn't be taken away.

The other issue is, the "consumption tax" listed isn't even drafted, at least not that I know of. Voting for something without knowing the ramifications could cause issues. Unless this vote is just a preliminary to get the process moving for something else. Either way my anus will be prepared.

busykngt · Feb 20, 2018

I agree with oldag: no NEW taxes! We already have a ‘sales tax’, which is it’s own form of “consumption tax”. And for all their promises, the old taxes never go away or, are reduced any. The main problem as I see it is, all those various ‘taxing authorities’ that make up the property tax bill, need to start living within their budgets just like private households have to do!

Brian Boru · Feb 20, 2018

First of all its just a poll, the primary propositions are not binding at all they just tell the state party what Republican voters want.

I'm a firm yes on the question myself. The point that they never get rid of taxes is well taken. But in this case they aren't so much asking if we want to set up a new tax they are asking if we want to end property taxes and find the money elsewhere. The delegates of the Republican state convention put abolishing property taxes in the platform this isn't even coming from our lawmakers.

If we do that and actually end property taxes then instead of landowners paying thousands of dollars per year on property, everyone including illegal immigrants will pay for our state government. We will finally own our property, and rent and cost of living should go down even for the poor since it's passed on by landlords.

On top of that the property tax system we have now is a convoluted mess. When our taxes go up the legislature points fingers at our local governments and school boards and they see fingers pointing back at them. I would rather know who to hold accountable.

Brian Boru · Feb 20, 2018

TexasBrandon said:
Also, what about those renting properties, their monthly rent would probably sky rocket since investors and owners of those properties would be on the hook for repairs and other wild spending.

I would think the opposite actually. Say you own a rental property and have to pay $1200 of property tax on it each year. You could actually afford to lower your rent by $100 per month with property taxes gone. Over all I think most things would at least even out.

Vaquero · Feb 20, 2018

No!
This will end up with no source of revenue for our schools.
Online / out of state purchases will flourish.
Local and state state coffers will suffer.
Local government and education needs to remain local.
I don't need Austin, or DFW or Houston deciding how my taxes are spent.
Wether they are derived from my spending habits or my real estate holdings.

Them fuckers we've elected will vote on what suits them best anyways .
No!

F350-6 · Feb 20, 2018

Property tax is a pretty broad description. Is it referring to only what the county collects, or does it also include the school taxes?

We've got schools with million plus dollar football stadiums paid for through property taxes. I'm not interested in paying a consumption (additional sales tax) to help the rich schools get even more stuff since I'm sure those schools will still find a way to pay for those stadiums on the taxpayer dime.

TexasBrandon · Feb 20, 2018

Vaquero said:
No!
This will end up with no source of revenue for our schools.
Online / out of state purchases will flourish.
Local and state state coffers will suffer.
Local government and education needs to remain local.
I don't need Austin, or DFW or Houston deciding how my taxes are spent.
Wether they are derived from my spending habits or my real estate holdings.

Them fuckers we've elected will vote on what suits them best anyways .
No!

I hadn't thought of that actually, good point. With the ease of buying anything anywhere anytime, that could royally hose over the state income. I guess that it could be implemented that you pay state tax regardless if your address is in Texas but that has a ton of other ramifications too plus being able to uphold that with other states.

I'm also against a state income tax though so I guess the status quo will have to do until either we can figure something else out or give people a reason to only buy in Texas (aint gonna happen).

I just had this discussion with my wife and we both have been voting against it every time it shows up on the ballot. This is just one more reason to keep it for the time being.

TheMailMan · Feb 21, 2018

How would this affect 100% disabled Veterans? Texas has generously given them a property tax exemption. I'll be honest, this exemption was one of the reasons my wife and I moved to Texas.

TexasBrandon · Feb 21, 2018

You would end up paying extra taxes like everybody else since each store wouldn't necessarily give a discount or tax exemption. I'm in the same boat myself except I'm not at 100% but I still receive a reduction based on my service-connected disability. In the end, after Vaq's statement I've decided to continue to oppose the proposition. There are entirely too many unknowns in play even if it is a preliminary. I'd rather see a proposed plan to replace it before I consider anything further. I do appreciate all the comments here, some things I hadn't thought of and needed to see and consider.

Ole Cowboy · Feb 21, 2018

TexasBrandon said:
"Texas should replace the property tax system with an appropriate consumption tax equivalent".

Thought on this? It's the last thing on the ballot I am trying to research and really understand the ramifications of "yay" or "nay". Based on things I have read, the tax rate could go up to 23% on buying goods. Meanwhile, they seem to raise property taxes to something ridiculous. I've been getting reamed year after year on increases from both of my properties.

I'm thinking a "Nay" on this one and a "yay" on prop 10 which caps it at 4% and then needs voter approval for more. I can't see too many folks liking a massive tax hike on bought goods. On the other hand it could spark better spending habits but that is a personal problem not a government problem. Also, what about those renting properties, their monthly rent would probably sky rocket since investors and owners of those properties would be on the hook for repairs and other wild spending.

The more I write this and think about it, the more I think a Nay would be appropriate. Thoughts?

Here is the problem...it WON'T WORK!

Property taxes pay for city and county services.

State sales tax (consumption tax) is about 6% and the the city can tack on another 2% for a total of 8.25%.

So ABC City drops all property taxes and goes straight consumption tax and its 23% or even 15%, but down the road about 25 mi is XYZ city and it did not give up its property tax. Where do the people in ABC go to shop? Fast forward 5 years and ABC is a business ghost town, XYZ, not a lot of homes, but BOOMING Business.

Got a problem with your Property tax bite, Tell the Mayor, City Council etc etc.

I live in a town of about 12,000 people and they just passed a School Bond of $100 MILLION!!! And this is just for the schools and they are talking about doing another one for $100M for the schools. I asked what and where does the $100M go and do? Did not get much of an answer. They spend money here like drunk sailors on payday.

Southpaw · Feb 21, 2018

Ole Cowboy said:
Did not get much of an answer. .

You don't seem like the type that would take that as an acceptable response.

TexasBrandon · Feb 21, 2018

Well its one or the other, the state wouldn't be deploying a consumption tax in only part of its regions. That being said, I think there is much more evidence and facts to say No to this then yes and is why today or tomorrow when I early vote I will be saying "No" again to this proposition.

The other thing is that no one has actually drawn up a plan on what this "Consumption Tax" would entail. I don't vote on a hypothesis, they would need to provide factual details on the plan to replace it before I even considered anything.

busykngt · Feb 21, 2018

I have no confidence in your average voter nowadays. Controlling spending is key to keeping property taxes and thus, homes affordable. And yet Bond proposals are almost always passed even when it comes to building $70M high school football stadiums (McKinney, TX). Outrageous spending isn’t just limited to ISDs, most counties with Community Colleges also don’t know how to live within a budget that helps keep property taxes in check.

Younggun · Feb 21, 2018

Ole Cowboy said:
Here is the problem...it WON'T WORK!

Property taxes pay for city and county services.

State sales tax (consumption tax) is about 6% and the the city can tack on another 2% for a total of 8.25%.

So ABC City drops all property taxes and goes straight consumption tax and its 23% or even 15%, but down the road about 25 mi is XYZ city and it did not give up its property tax. Where do the people in ABC go to shop? Fast forward 5 years and ABC is a business ghost town, XYZ, not a lot of homes, but BOOMING Business.

Got a problem with your Property tax bite, Tell the Mayor, City Council etc etc.

I live in a town of about 12,000 people and they just passed a School Bond of $100 MILLION!!! And this is just for the schools and they are talking about doing another one for $100M for the schools. I asked what and where does the $100M go and do? Did not get much of an answer. They spend money here like drunk sailors on payday.

Town I grew up I. Went full retard as well. Did 3 separate propositions with the tax hike taking effects a year after the fact. People didn't have enough sense to realize they didn't notice the increase because it HADN'T happened yet!

To top it off, it was pushed based off a need for a larger school but when voted on it was don't in order of new football stadium, new bus barn, THEN new school.

Priorities are fucked.

oldag · Feb 21, 2018

Brian Boru said:
First of all its just a poll, the primary propositions are not binding at all they just tell the state party what Republican voters want.

I'm a firm yes on the question myself. The point that they never get rid of taxes is well taken. But in this case they aren't so much asking if we want to set up a new tax they are asking if we want to end property taxes and find the money elsewhere. The delegates of the Republican state convention put abolishing property taxes in the platform this isn't even coming from our lawmakers.

If we do that and actually end property taxes then instead of landowners paying thousands of dollars per year on property, everyone including illegal immigrants will pay for our state government. We will finally own our property, and rent and cost of living should go down even for the poor since it's passed on by landlords.

On top of that the property tax system we have now is a convoluted mess. When our taxes go up the legislature points fingers at our local governments and school boards and they see fingers pointing back at them. I would rather know who to hold accountable.

Mark my words, one of two things will happen in reality (not talking about the poll):
1. The property tax does not go away and the new tax comes online. Various excuses will be made as to why the property tax does not go away. And promises may be made to phase property tax out, but somehow that will never happen
2. The property tax does go away. But a couple of years later the school districts are crying and the property tax is revived while the new tax remains.

One big reason for NOT supporting the new tax:
With property taxes, the sting is pretty visible to most people. Valuations can be protested. Local authorities can be easily confronted over rates. Limits can be placed on the year to year increases. None of those things will be the case with the consumption tax.

Besides, we already have a consumption tax in the form of sales tax.

The comment regarding illegals not paying taxes is not correct. They pay sales tax when they buy. And indirectly they pay property taxes when they rent, as owners figure in the property tax when determining how much rent to charge. Illegals would pay directly if they purchase.

TheMailMan · Feb 21, 2018

TexasBrandon said:
You would end up paying extra taxes like everybody else since each store wouldn't necessarily give a discount or tax exemption. I'm in the same boat myself except I'm not at 100% but I still receive a reduction based on my service-connected disability. In the end, after Vaq's statement I've decided to continue to oppose the proposition. There are entirely too many unknowns in play even if it is a preliminary. I'd rather see a proposed plan to replace it before I consider anything further. I do appreciate all the comments here, some things I hadn't thought of and needed to see and consider.

It would not fall to the stores don't make tax policy. Either the Government would exempt us or they wouldn't. Failure to exempt us would be a breach of faith.

TheMailMan · Feb 21, 2018

The thing with bonds for stuff is there's a large number of taxpayers and voters that don't understand those have to be paid for.

avvidclif · Feb 21, 2018

Would that be like the buyer with a credit card problem????

Proposition 1 2018 Ballot

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