Can't seem to shoot my G17 accurate anymore.

Higgins909 · Feb 25, 2018

I've got a G17 Gen4. I've only been to the range about 4 times now and every time I've taken my G17 with me. This seems to be shooter error, but I can't figure out why. I've got 2 other guns, a Kimber 1911 .45acp and a Shield 9mm. I shoot both of those pretty alright, considering my poorish vision and my range visit frequency. (idk what it is, but I always seem to get a grain of powder inbetween my g17 rear sights) (First time shooting this new shield)

Just want to get this out before I ramble on. I brought it up, to a employee at the range and they pretty much shot it fine. They did say that the trigger was a bit different. I wanna say, this employee had some kind of glock strapped to his hip. They said something about a NewYork trigger, that is was kinda like one, but not.

But pretty much I've only had about 50 rounds, maybe less, that I got good groups with. Now I pretty much shoot all over the paper. I actually seem to shoot off the silhouette, to the bottom right. They're some very bad shots. At one point I was trying to shoot the left shoulder of the target, as it was a clean spot. I ended up shooting very close to center. Maybe 1-2 inches to the right and 2-4 down low, of where I was aiming. Also was aiming above the head to shoot the head at one point... Which really made me question what in the world is going on, when I had the employee shoot it.

I did notice that I was having some getting comfortable issues and hand sweat. Was trying to grip my gun hand, with my supporting hand and it didn't work out so well, this range session.

Thank you for any input,
Higgins909

ZX9RCAM · Feb 25, 2018

Are you left handed?

seeker_two · Feb 25, 2018

Is your dominant eye on the same side as your dominant hand?

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Higgins909 · Feb 25, 2018

ZX9RCAM said:
Are you left handed?

Not really. I'm left eye dominant, so I thought I would try to become a left handed shooter. So I switched my magazine release around. I was shooting the other two guns, right hand. But the glock which is what I mostly shot, I tried right handed to try and figure out if that was the problem, but wasn't sure where I was hitting. In my previous sessions with my glock, I've shot right handed. Same issue. Not really sure where my shots are going and I end up making the target look like a buckshot target. I need a place where I can shoot steel plates. Back to my handage, some things feel better in one hand, then the other and vise vesa. I'm thinking about going to the range again, tomorrow after work.

ZX9RCAM · Feb 25, 2018

Low right would typically Indicate a left hander anticipating recoil, which is why I asked.
Or right hander squeezing with the trigger pull.

avvidclif · Feb 25, 2018

Do you have someone else that can help? Range people would be ideal. Have them load your gun for each shot and hand it to you. Tell them every so often don't load a bullet. If you're flinching or jerking the shot you and everyone around you will know when you hit an empty hole. The gun will go click instead of bang and the muzzle will dive for the ground. Harder to do for an auto but on revolvers it's easy.

Wildcat Diva · Feb 25, 2018

Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

Jon Payne · Feb 25, 2018

I bet a decent coach could fix you in 30 min to a hour.

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benenglish · Feb 25, 2018

Jon Payne said:
I bet a decent coach could fix you in 30 min to a hour.

Seconded.

Vaquero · Feb 25, 2018

benenglish said:
Seconded.

Yep.
Or a couple hundred dollars worth of ammo, shooting on your own.

Wildcat Diva · Feb 25, 2018

And ten minutes a day and $0.. dry firing at random stuff in your house (drawer knobs, Knick knacks).

I just did my bit. (Working on my “both eyes open” sight picture at the same time. )

That way you’ll take anticipating out of the mix of problems it could be.

benenglish · Feb 25, 2018

Vaquero said:
Or a couple hundred dollars worth of ammo, shooting on your own.

I dunno. I've seen people waste thousands of dollars on ammo and not improve. I vote for finding a good coach and scheduling a one-hour private lesson. I'm willing to bet it would be cheaper in the long run.

Dawico · Feb 25, 2018

benenglish said:
I dunno. I've seen people waste thousands of dollars on ammo and not improve. I vote for finding a good coach and scheduling a one-hour private lesson. I'm willing to bet it would be cheaper in the long run.

Yep, seen them just reinforce their own bad habits.

Dry fire is very helpful. Training is too if you can't figure out what is wrong on your own.

Jigo23 · Feb 25, 2018

Couple of suggestions that immediately come to mind. First you mentioned your eyesight. Is the front sight little fuzzy when you focus it on your target? Get yourself a set of Ameriglo Spartan Operator sights with the orange outlined front tritium and subdued tritium or all black rear sights. The orange outline front will jump out at you and easy to center up. I’m also a righty, left eye dominant. Shoot right handed and always with both eyes open. Your dominant left eye will take over and focus itself on the front sight, right eye stays open to increase situational awareness. Can practice this easily right in your recliner

The factory Glock trigger is crap...myself and my former SF buds love the McNally drop in adjustable trigger kit.
You mentioned your hands slipping on the grip...get a set of Talon grip overlays in either textured rubber or the rougher skateboard tape type. They are patterned to fit your exact pistol and very easy to install. Then practice deliberately ALOT until you can gradually increase your rate of fire to accurate double/triple taps
Having someone mix in a snap cap randomly in your range mag is a good drill to see if you are dipping or anticipating recoil. All my Glocks and my teams Glocks were configured that way.
I don’t miss my target...ever, with G17 or G19 so whatever that’s worth. Hang in there and don’t give up on it.
Oh, also if your groups are good but hitting right, might have to drift rear sight just a tad to the left. Good luck!

Vaquero · Feb 25, 2018

benenglish said:
I dunno. I've seen people waste thousands of dollars on ammo and not improve. I vote for finding a good coach and scheduling a one-hour private lesson. I'm willing to bet it would be cheaper in the long run.

It would. No doubt .
I didn't have that option though.
I shot. I reloaded. I shot. I reloaded. Ad nauseam.
I once was able to hit what I aimed at. Every time .
No. It wasn't cheap, but it was what I had available.

Higgins909 · Feb 26, 2018

I did better at the range this time. I'm not sure if it's how the palm of my trigger finger is pulling the trigger, or if I have some kind of flinch in my gun arm/hand. I noticed while dry frying, I would see the sight drop down and right, about 80% of the time. I failed to see IF it happened with my right/dominant arm/hand though.

I'm not really sure if its a flinch or what. I need to do some research on it.

I kinda want to switch to left hand, as I've found it fairly unpleasant to bend my neck like that the whole range session, being cross dominant. (I get my times worth out of that hour)

I just don't really get why it was only with this gun, that I was hitting so horribly with. Right or Left handed. I guess I remember grouping pretty well with my Kimber .45 custom 2, when I first shot it. Last session I lost my grip or something.

I'm sure I'm making it harder for myself, switching guns and hands... I wanted to get my glock backstraps on for the latest range session, but didn't remember till I was already driving to work. (work is closer then home, to range)

I'm not sure about putting Talon grips on my guns. I don't want to do anything that I can't reverse. I plan to get night sights for it eventually. I want to try and black out the rear sight, next time. I noticed that my shield has a brighter front dot then the rears... or maybe it's my vision. My kimber has 3 white dots and they all seem even. Anyways, I like how my shield's sights are.

Dawico · Feb 27, 2018

I shoot cross dominant too but I turn my shoulders a little instead of tweaking my neck. It is more comfortable to me.

Watch how much finger you are putting on the trigger. This affects point of aim a lot on Glocks. You get a lot of sideways push or pull if you are not pushing the trigger straight back.

Keep up with the dry fire practice too. I used to put a coin on the front sight. If it falls off then you are doing something wrong.

When you get good at pulling a trigger you can keep the coin on there with a double action pull on a revolver.

Sounds like you are making good progress. Keep it up.

ZX9RCAM · Feb 27, 2018

I'm left handed and right eye dominant.
I stand with my right shoulder bladed towards the target, and just a slight head tilt to the left.

Gilgondorin · Mar 4, 2018

Higgins909 said:
I did better at the range this time. I'm not sure if it's how the palm of my trigger finger is pulling the trigger, or if I have some kind of flinch in my gun arm/hand. I noticed while dry frying, I would see the sight drop down and right, about 80% of the time. I failed to see IF it happened with my right/dominant arm/hand though.

1.) Ignore the audio (or don't, if you're a metal head that likes deathcore too \m/)
2.) This should be done with a snap cap and obviously in an area where no ammo is present with a gun you've verified is unloaded
3.) It'll probably work really well on your Block if you have standard OEM sights:

That will probably give you a really good idea if you're heeling or doing anything else wonky with your trigger work, because that penny doesn't need much of an excuse to go tumbling off of a front sight (it won't work if you just put it on the top of the slide).

If you can tighten up your trigger technique, then you should see some improvement; it then becomes a matter of raw practice in making sure the muzzle blast doesn't get you too worked up that it makes you go back to your old bad habits. Although I've never seen your technique before and don't know how well you shoot normally, I almost suspect that getting used to shooting .45ACP and the sub-compact have given you a little bit of anticipatory flinch, since recoil can be a bear out of either one.

Additionally, I would not recommend craning your neck for any reason; pick a side and stick with it -- either shoot with your dominant eye, or shoot with the eye you can see better out of, don't mix and match or the discomfort will only get cumulative and throw your concentration progressively more and more the longer your range outing is.

ZX9RCAM · Mar 4, 2018

I agree with picking one hand and sticking with it when it comes to shooting, but if one is cross eye dominant, a little head/neck twist is necessary.
At least in my experience being left handed and right eye dominant.

Can't seem to shoot my G17 accurate anymore.

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