TSA gun locks on gun cases?

Curious? When browsing through the gun case thread it dawned on me that I had bought my case prior to 9/11 and it doesn't have the TSA locks. I've been using the same case for nearly 20 years and no one, especially the TSA, has ever said a word about it. The drill is always the same and they always look through my gear with me there unlocking and locking.

Are these things "required" or is it just a unnecessary precaution? I really don't want to waste the time, effort, money and most of all give access to anyone that doesn't need it. Of curse this does leave me at the risk of someone mangling the case rendering it unusable while I am traveling which would very bad.

Thoughts?

I never use a TSA lock. I am the only person that needs to be able to open that case. They check it, I lock it, and the key comes with me on the plane.

You're actually NOT supposed to use TSA locks on your checked guns.

• Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock.

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jeepinbanditrider said:

You're actually NOT supposed to use TSA locks on your checked guns.

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Good. Did you pull that from the TSA site or where?

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition


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Yes TSA site.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition

TSA lock on suitcase, non-TSA on gun case. that's how I've always done it

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TSA locks are prohibited on cases used to transport firearms. They are only for uninspected baggage. Since your baggage is inspected by TSA prior to the general inspection and a TSA card is placed inside the case no further inspection is required. When TSA x-rays your gun case along with all the other baggage they can see the tag and "pass" the bag. I always put my phone number on the outside of my cases but have never been called to open a lock for re-inspection. Never had a lock cut.


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Somebody took this image off the TSA web site and now everybody can print himself a set:

My understanding is you cannot place a TSA lock on gun cases, you must be the only keyholder.

Never used a TSA lock

dustoffjoe said:

My understanding is you cannot place a TSA lock on gun cases, you must be the only keyholder.

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That's correct.

Of course, some airports are staffed by idiots who will insist that you give them the key so they can inspect your guns out of your sight. It is illegal to give up control of that key.

If things go south, you may wind up in a situation where your expensive locks get cut off, you may be "unintentionally" delayed until you've learned your lesson, or you may even get the old "Do you want to fly today?" question.

Stand firm. Never relinquish direct control of your key to the locks on your gun cases.

The TSA web site cited above tortures the regulatory language in an attempt to lie on this subject. It says:

Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.

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Well, yes, they can ask for the key. But they can't take it out of your sight.

FAA regs rule in this case. CFR Title 14 Sec. 108.11(d)(3) specifically says

...the baggage in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger checking the baggage retains the key or combination;...

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Title 49 says the same thing in two places, one for commercial operators and one for civil operators. The commercial (most useful) text is here and clearly states, at 1544.203(f)(2)(iii):

...only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination;...

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There is NO exception for handing over your key to the TSA for them to take it out of your sight. You can hand them the key and let them unlock the case in your presence but if you let that key out of your control, you've screwed up, big time.

If you fly with guns enough, you will run across TSA personnel who believe they have the right to take your key, disappear somewhere, and bring it back to you later. Have your ducks in a row, have copies of the law and regs printed out, arrive way early, be prepared to go up the chain of command, and, ultimately, be prepared to use your travel insurance to get reimbursed for a trip you'll be forced to cancel.

Then start filing complaints with the FAA.

PS - It's good to keep in mind that the law-breaking here is on the part of the airline. It's illegal for an airline to accept checked baggage containing a firearm when the person checking the baggage has lost control of the key. The TSA drones don't care about getting the airlines in trouble or even appreciate that such is the result of their actions. If you can get far enough up the management chain of the airline, making that person understand that the TSA is doing something that will get the airline in trouble with the FAA is a good way to get the airline on your side.

I have a hard sided suitcase with a built in combo lock
That is what I have always used to transport my handguns in.

Last year going to Alaska, leaving out of my smaller local airport, the Airline employee was very descrete and professional . I declared my unloaded firearm. He took a quick peak at the baggage and handed me the declaration form to sign and I locked up the case and it was on its way to Anchorage.

On the return trip from Anchoage, I did the same thing and I figured that the Anchorage Airport sees more than it's fair share of firearms being declared.
After I signed the little form they told me to leave it unlocked and take it over to TSA for a "screening"??
I walked the 15 feet over to a lone TSA guy and he did his wipe down test of the outside of the case and put the test swab into his Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator
and I guess it passed because he told me to lock it and he sent it on its way.

I looked at my son and we tried to understand why they did that.
I mean, here I am DECLARING a firearm and signing the form and then they want to test the bag for bomb residue?

Yeah, a guy trying to sneak a bomb onto a plane will be smart and put it inside a case that he is admitting to having a gun in....yeah...

At Houston's Hobby airport, I was once told to take the pistol in my carry-on bag, and board the plane. I, instead, went to the first uniformed officer and told him what I had been instructed to do. The "Agent" who had instructed me got a big lesson right there. I always carry at least two print-outs of the TSA Reg's and the specific Airline's requirements, one copy of each on my person.

benenglish said:

That's correct.

Of course, some airports are staffed by idiots who will insist that you give them the key so they can inspect your guns out of your sight. It is illegal to give up control of that key.

If things go south, you may wind up in a situation where your expensive locks get cut off, you may be "unintentionally" delayed until you've learned your lesson, or you may even get the old "Do you want to fly today?" question.

Stand firm. Never relinquish direct control of your key to the locks on your gun cases.

The TSA web site cited above tortures the regulatory language in an attempt to lie on this subject. It says: Well, yes, they can ask for the key. But they can't take it out of your sight.

FAA regs rule in this case. CFR Title 14 Sec. 108.11(d)(3) specifically says Title 49 says the same thing in two places, one for commercial operators and one for civil operators. The commercial (most useful) text is here and clearly states, at 1544.203(f)(2)(iii):

There is NO exception for handing over your key to the TSA for them to take it out of your sight. You can hand them the key and let them unlock the case in your presence but if you let that key out of your control, you've screwed up, big time.

If you fly with guns enough, you will run across TSA personnel who believe they have the right to take your key, disappear somewhere, and bring it back to you later. Have your ducks in a row, have copies of the law and regs printed out, arrive way early, be prepared to go up the chain of command, and, ultimately, be prepared to use your travel insurance to get reimbursed for a trip you'll be forced to cancel.

Then start filing complaints with the FAA.

PS - It's good to keep in mind that the law-breaking here is on the part of the airline. It's illegal for an airline to accept checked baggage containing a firearm when the person checking the baggage has lost control of the key. The TSA drones don't care about getting the airlines in trouble or even appreciate that such is the result of their actions. If you can get far enough up the management chain of the airline, making that person understand that the TSA is doing something that will get the airline in trouble with the FAA is a good way to get the airline on your side.

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That is very good info. In Phoenix the X Ray machines r by the counters. They inspect it in front of me. Put a tag in it with a metallic strip and I lock it. In Indianapolis IN, the tried to get me to give them the key when it was out of my site. Now I have some ammunition in the fight now knowing this.

jeepinbanditrider said:

You're actually NOT supposed to use TSA locks on your checked guns.

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That is what the airlines told me too

Always go by the written regulations and the published written airline's policies, not by what the "agents" tell you verbally. I cannot overemphasize this.

The stated purpose of using a "TSA Approved" case lock is so they can unlock it for additional inspection, then re-lock it without damaging a non-compliant lock.

One more thing: If you are unexpectedly re-routed through a firearms unfriendly state, do not retrieve a bag with a gun yourself. Ask a police officer to do it for you, or you may be liable to prosecution by overzealous anti-gunners, despite the federal laws which supposedly protect travelers.

leVieux

leVieux said:

Always go by the written regulations and the published written airline's policies, not by what the "agents" tell you verbally. I cannot overemphasize this.

The stated purpose of using a "TSA Approved" case lock is so they can unlock it for additional inspection, then re-lock it without damaging a non-compliant lock.

One more thing: If you are unexpectedly re-routed through a firearms unfriendly state, do not retrieve a bag with a gun yourself. Ask a police officer to do it for you, or you may be liable to prosecution by overzealous anti-gunners, despite the federal laws which supposedly protect travelers.

leVieux

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Umm, for the umpteenth time in this thread, one is not permitted to use a TSA lock on the actual gun case. If the gun case is inside another piece of luggage a TSA lock goes on THAT piece of luggage.

No police officer is going to retrieve your luggage for you, either. Even if one would, what would that accomplish? You would take possession at some point.

txinvestigator said:

You would take possession at some point.

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I think we went through the permutations of this scenario in another thread and came to the conclusion that the best course is to take possession only when you get to your final location. The airline can hold your bag until then. After all, it's up to them to re-route your bags just like it is to re-route your person.

benenglish said:

I think we went through the permutations of this scenario in another thread and came to the conclusion that the best course is to take possession only when you get to your final location. The airline can hold your bag until then. After all, it's up to them to re-route your bags just like it is to re-route your person.

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yup