Breaking: Active shooter Santa Fe TX high school

Wildcat Diva · May 20, 2018

benenglish said:
With resellers charging ~$150 for good seats, I'll pass. I really wish I had been on whatever mailing list would have tipped me off when they first became available.

It’s a small venue. The $58 seats will be fine!

What is there to really “see” up close, it’s an elderly man talking?

(Let me know if you’ll be there!)

ETA: whoops, he’s only 55. So middle aged, not elderly. He just seems older because he’s so smart.

dapakattack · May 20, 2018

So what makes the United States so prone to this? Western Europe has to have just as crappy parenting as The States does. They have been in a Post-Modern world setting much longer than we have. Kids have the same access to the internet and video games as here. Their access to firearms are restricted, but we don't hear of kids finding other ways to kill multiple kids over there. Although it would be interesting to find out if they have issues with individual or small number attacks.

I really do think that if all firearms magically disappeared that American kids set out on harming others would still find a way to murder as many other classmates as they could.

Is it the prescribing of medications? Do European and Asian countries prescribe ADHD medications in the same quantity as here?

Medicated white males seems to be the common theme.

General Zod · May 20, 2018

dapakattack said:
Their access to firearms are restricted, but we don't hear of kids finding other ways to kill multiple kids over there. Although it would be interesting to find out if they have issues with individual or small number attacks.

That's just it - we don't hear about it. When some guy in York goes nuts because a girl rejects him and hacks her up with a butcher knife, it doesn't get reported any wider than the north of England. Even if he kills multiple other people, it'll get a mention but then it's gone from the headlines. But if some American kid kills a girl for rejecting him - well, as long as he uses a gun it's instant national and even international news.

Europeans like to brag about how their "gun crime" is down. They completely ignore knife crime (although in the UK that's starting to become the latest civilian disarmament craze), acid attacks, vehicular attacks, bludgeonings...their violent crime rate is increasing as ours decreases. But it's only bad if someone is killed with a bullet, I suppose. Somehow you're less dead if you're murdered with a knife or some sort of gardening implement...

toddnjoyce · May 20, 2018

Lots of thoughts on this subject, and I keep coming back to the same conclusions.

In some parts of the world it’s mass killing with some version of an IED; in some places it’s mass killing with a gun; in some places it doesn’t happen. Any way, any where that mass killing occurs outside of war, is a recent development.

Where it does occur is in places that are pretty divided in the society, culture, or ethnic/racial demographics and have been for a while.

Somewhere along the way, it’s gone from being horrific to noteworthy. My guess is very few people have conversations about why this isn’t acceptable with their kids. The media and politicians sure as hell don’t say these type of things aren’t acceptable. If we’re lucky, we here ‘such a horrible tragedy...thoughts and prayers, etc’.

Ignoring a problem doesn’t make it go away. Telling people this type of behavior is wrong, is cowardly, and isn’t acceptable is a path that hasn’t been tried.

Everyone has to decide the behavior is wrong for it to stop. And we’re not there yet when we aren’t having these types of conversations.

easy rider · May 20, 2018

Political correctness, everyone gets ahead and both parents working isn't common practice in many countries. Family values are also still strong in many places.

As much as many people want to blame the schools themselves, the schools are a product of society. Many rules of schools are dictated not only by government, but also the community. Even still, most students learn how to treat others from their parents, it shouldn't be left to others to teach morals.

benenglish · May 20, 2018

Wildcat Diva said:
It’s a small venue. The $58 seats will be fine!

I've been to that venue multiple times. As far as I'm concerned, front orchestra is good, the "VIP" is OK (good sightlines), and the rest of the venue sucks. The sound is usually pretty terrible, too, given that it's basically just a big box with no apparent attention paid to acoustical design. The last show I saw there was a standup act and I was sitting on the far left; the rowdies at the bar were often louder than the comic. I really don't like the place.

I haven't absolutely made up my mind to NOT go but it's highly unlikely.

benenglish · May 21, 2018

dapakattack said:
...we don't hear of...

I hate to be terse but there are plenty of school shootings, mass shootings, mass murders, etc., in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I doubt this list is complete, but it's still pretty long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe

Wildcat Diva · May 21, 2018

Benenglish:

Aw man, I hope I don’t regret buying my tickets. It was a hard choice to spend hard earned dollars there or not. Husband has been to lots of shows there, and I have twice before been on the floor for shows. Maybe I’m just less discerning and won’t notice any problems, fingers crossed.

AustinN4 · May 21, 2018

benenglish said:
I hate to be terse but there are plenty of school shootings, mass shootings, mass murders, etc., in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I doubt this list is complete, but it's still pretty long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe

Ben, with all respect I would not call that "plenty". While 2009 saw 4 incidents, in all of Europe there were none in 2010 and 2011, 1 in 2012, none in 2013, 2 in 2014, 1 in 2015, none in 2016, There was only 1 in each of 2014, 2015, and 2017 and 2018.

I believe I heard or read that we have had 16 this year alone. Or maybe that was 16 in the last 12 month period? Not sure which.

Wiki is saying 16 YTD:
"In terms of the year-to-date number of individual deadly school shootings incidents in the United States, early 2018 was much higher than 2017, with 16 in 2018 and four in 2017, through May;[74] the year-to-day through May number of incidents was the highest since 1999.[69]"
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox?compose=163825f318504747

ZX9RCAM · May 21, 2018

Texas shooting suspect's choice of guns complicates debate over assault rifles.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...chool-shooting-gun-debate-20180520-story.html

oldag · May 21, 2018

ZX9RCAM said:
Texas shooting suspect's choice of guns complicates debate over assault rifles.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...chool-shooting-gun-debate-20180520-story.html

Quite frankly, I am surprised to see that article published.

ZX9RCAM · May 21, 2018

I agree...

toddnjoyce · May 21, 2018

busykngt said:
By quoting my posting, I can only surmise your comment was directed to me.

Just continuing the conversation, not really directed at anyone.

Sometimes, a post will spark thoughts for me and I’ll quote it while composing mine, and refer to it while putting words to paper.

TheMailMan · May 21, 2018

ZX9RCAM said:
Texas shooting suspect's choice of guns complicates debate over assault rifles.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...chool-shooting-gun-debate-20180520-story.html

"That's true" that weapons other than assault rifles can kill many people at once, conceded Avery W. Gardiner, co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which favors a federal ban on assault rifles but not on shotguns or pistols.

There are more registered weapons in Texas than in any other state, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, though some smaller states have more guns per capita.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Liberals are so damn stupid when it comes to talking about guns. It's like a three year old trying to explain thermodynamics.

easy rider · May 21, 2018

"Of course there is no single law that will prevent all gun violence, but there are common-sense solutions that are proven to work, like requiring a criminal-background check on every gun sale and ensuring that adults store firearms responsibly," said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety. "But, in order to enact these lifesaving policies that the vast majority of Americans support, we first need to elect leaders who are willing to stand up to the NRA."

Criminal background checks are already in place, or are they talking private sales? And how would they do that?
What law is going to ensure adults store firearms responsibly?

I can come up with many things that would keep people from killing others, but much of it wouldn't be conducive to a free society.

Lunyfringe · May 21, 2018

They just love stating bovine scatology like it's fact... they either pull the figures out of their collective asses, or they manipulate data to make their case. They will ignore any studies that are contrary, no matter how relevant.

AustinN4 · May 21, 2018

easy rider said:
Criminal background checks are already in place, or are they talking private sales?

Yes

And how would they do that?

After the fact - if they ever had reason to know you had a firearm and ran your info for some reason they would know you were in illegal possession.

What law is going to ensure adults store firearms responsibly?

Again, after the fact if they ever had reason to check. As in how did this kid get his dad's firearms?

easy rider · May 21, 2018

AustinN4 said:
Yes

After the fact - if they ever had reason to know you had a firearm and ran your info for some reason they would know you were in illegal possession.

Again, after the fact if they ever had reason to check. As in how did this kid get his dad's firearms?

And after the fact has prevented how many murders?

ZX9RCAM · May 21, 2018

easy rider said:
And after the fact has prevented how many murders?

Yep, the barn door has to be shut BEFORE the cows get out...

Lunyfringe · May 21, 2018

dapakattack said:
So what makes the United States so prone to this? Western Europe has to have just as crappy parenting as The States does. They have been in a Post-Modern world setting much longer than we have. Kids have the same access to the internet and video games as here. Their access to firearms are restricted, but we don't hear of kids finding other ways to kill multiple kids over there. Although it would be interesting to find out if they have issues with individual or small number attacks.

I really do think that if all firearms magically disappeared that American kids set out on harming others would still find a way to murder as many other classmates as they could.

Is it the prescribing of medications? Do European and Asian countries prescribe ADHD medications in the same quantity as here?

Medicated white males seems to be the common theme.

Does Western Europe media focus on what few incidents they have 24/7 for days/weeks on end after?

That's part of the issue, narcissistic boys with personality disorders want to be KNOWN- even if it's for something bad. And CNN,MSNBC,FOX, etc all make it obvious EVERYBODY will know your name if you shoot up a school. Ask just about anyone and they can name about a dozen famous shooters... how many victims can they name?

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