Electrical gadget trouble?

grasshopperglock · May 21, 2018

benenglish said:
I'm talking about installation in a small, high-rise condo. Literally pulling out the dishwasher and putting the unit in that space is the only logical way to proceed.

You can't drill holes in the wall. I'd install it by the sliding back door. Shortest route to vent the exhaust. You can get a narrow section panel with a dog door in it. That'll fit a space in the door frame. Vent it out that. A side project is researching some sound deadening products. A gen can be about three to five times louder then a refrigerator. You'll also have to cushion the floor or vibration will carry to the neighbors. No need in them throwing a hissy. Set it on a stack of cushion children play room thingies. They look like, by the square yard, puzzle pieces. About 1/4" thick. They come in a pack, wally world. Insulated dryer hose will help cover sound. They also make specific sound deadening accordion dyer hose looking stuff. Twice the money.

No doubts in it being done.

grasshopperglock · May 21, 2018

I hope your stuff doesn't get inspected. None of this is in the fire code.

boomgoesthedynamite · May 21, 2018

What about using the dryer vent for exhaust? You could look at byilding a soundproof box using mdf and fiberboard.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

grasshopperglock · May 21, 2018

Read the manufacturer temperature rating of the hose and duct. Laser the exhaust temp. The exhaust may have to be routed into a cooling chamber of some sort. Then that's more $ on an extraction fan for the hose off the chamber.

ZX9RCAM · May 21, 2018

boomgoesthedynamite said:
What about using the dryer vent for exhaust? You could look at byilding a soundproof box using mdf and fiberboard.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I bet that generator would get awful hot in a soundproof box...

Vaquero · May 21, 2018

It's a bad idea.

F350-6 · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
It's called power factor.
Leading or lagging.
ERCOT requires a generating facility to be within a certain percentage. Distribution utilities also must be within guidelines.
It's confusing, but not complicated.

Sure, but does this new ruling effect ERCOT and throw all that out the window, or is it just for the NERC?

benenglish said:
I'm talking about installation in a small, high-rise condo. Literally pulling out the dishwasher and putting the unit in that space is the only logical way to proceed.

Look at Generac, Kohler, etc. Those are the big name whole house or standby generator companies. You should be able to find a DB rating on the generators there. (bad news, it won't be satisfactory no matter what you do with the exhaust).

QUOTE="benenglish, post: 1731096, member: 10792"]Understood. However, I've seen some stealthy air filter/exchange units plumbed to the outside in some high-rise units. This part isn't convenient but it can be done. The biggest problem is the fact that in order to hide the exterior exhaust vent, the vent from the unit to the outside will have to run at floor level. If that requires an inline exhaust fan, I can live with that.[/QUOTE]

Got a fireplace with a chimney? Is the plumbing (sewer) vent in the condo cast iron or PVC? Cast iron could take the heat, but would likely transmit the noise. Chimney would be the best bet, but noise is still going to be the issue.

Will the condo allow you to place a generator on the roof and run electrical down (if you promise not to tell anyone else what you're doing)?

avvidclif · May 21, 2018

Have a real good AC as most smaller generators are air cooled........

Vaquero · May 21, 2018

ERCOT will keep their guidelines.
NERC sets national policy, ERCOT follows and adds as they see fit. ERCOT runs a tight ship, on behalf of the consumer.

F350-6 · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
ERCOT runs a tight ship, on behalf of the consumer.

Except for when TXU forgot to step up the line voltage when they built several houses between me and the substation that led to my repeated AC failures. That's why I'm a bit nervous.

Vaquero · May 21, 2018

F350-6 said:
Except for when TXU forgot to step up the line voltage when they built several houses between me and the substation that led to my repeated AC failures. That's why I'm a bit nervous.

As a consumer, if you have issues with a distribution power company, Contact the PUC of Texas. (Public utility commission)
ERCOT oversees the generation, transmission and substations.
They don't deal much in the distribution lines.
PUC is your voice at the consumer level.

F350-6 · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
As a consumer, if you have issues with a distribution power company, Contact the PUC of Texas. (Public utility commission)
ERCOT oversees the generation, transmission and substations.
They don't deal much in the distribution lines.
PUC is your voice at the consumer level.

I tried. Problem is how do you prove anything? When I finally figured out what the problem was, I called TXU and reported the problem. After arguing with the girl on the phone I told her, just write this down on the ticket. The repair guy will know what it means.

When the service tech tested voltage at the meter, he simply said, that's not good, got in his truck and left. Power went out 20 minutes later for about 5 hours. When it came back on, all the lights in the house were brighter. Voltage has been fine since. TXU claimed the power outage had nothing to do with mine or my neighbors complaint. Just a totally random, unrelated outage on a clear, sunny day.

It cost a bunch of money, but at least it got fixed. But they're starting to build houses out here again. I'll be tracking and photo / videoing things this time.

Vaquero · May 21, 2018

Shady

F350-6 · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
Shady

No. Sunny and HOT. Great time to lose power. :cool:

stdreb27 · May 21, 2018

Every drain has a vent...

benenglish · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
It's a bad idea.

The more research I do, the more I'm drifting to that conclusion.

There are still bargains to be had that are convenient to the med center, places where the old commercial supplies for water and electricity are grandfathered and not individually metered. Any of those would be more convenient. Heck, there's one building downtown that includes in the (high) HOA fee all utilities - trash, water, electricity, internet, cable, etc.

Just trying to keep a good list of options, really. It's inevitable that I will eventually have to move closer to the med center and it's never too early to start planning.

Vaquero · May 21, 2018

benenglish said:
The more research I do, the more I'm drifting to that conclusion.

There are still bargains to be had that are convenient to the med center, places where the old commercial supplies for water and electricity are grandfathered and not individually metered. Any of those would be more convenient. Heck, there's one building downtown that includes in the (high) HOA fee all utilities - trash, water, electricity, internet, cable, etc.

Just trying to keep a good list of options, really. It's inevitable that I will eventually have to move closer to the med center and it's never too early to start planning.

Not the whole concept you proposed is bad.
Just the indoors internal combustion engine part.

I was responding to the "designers".

benenglish · May 21, 2018

Vaquero said:
Not the whole concept you proposed is bad.
Just the indoors internal combustion engine part.

Hmmmm. A disguised fuel cell on the balcony, shorter than the rail height so that it can't be seen by neighbors and super-quiet so that it can't be heard, now enters the thought process.

Dadgum, there are a lot of ways to approach problems, aren't there?

Brains · May 21, 2018

By the time you invest enough in the equipment to make all this work, you'll likely find an alternative solution. The reality is generation is the toughest component in the equation. Solar is great, if you have the installation area, upfront capital, and a backup for nighttime/inclement periods. Wind is great, if you have the wind and the installation area and a backup for off periods. Gas powered generation is great, if you have the gas and the infrastructure, and the tolerance for maintenance outages. Water power is great if you have access to a river

I'm most interested in energy storage advances. A well sized battery bank is a solid method of providing energy independence, within reason, but it obviously won't get you totally off-grid. It can definitely get you dirt cheap reliable power if you take advantage of plans with 'free nights and weekends' from the grid, where you consume the battery power in your high-cost periods and charge when free. Today the various Li-ion batteries are pretty darned good, and the next generation solid state glass electrolyte tech promises to be 10x better.

FWIW, the question of 60Hz frequency stability by and large isn't that important anymore, since most of our electronics have changed over to switching power supplies anyway. They take whatever AC power they're given, from 80V to 250V and from ~40Hz to ~80Hz, and they output steady filtered DC.

Darkpriest667 · May 21, 2018

benenglish said:
These are things I know far too little about. I am, however, intrigued by some buildings in downtown Houston that have relatively low HOA fees because they don't include electricity. A couple of them have unmetered natural gas.

A while back I investigated fuel cells and found nothing the right size. There were little ones and there were some the size of houses designed for industrial applications. I found nothing sized for a small home.

In practical terms (noise, vibration, exhaust, etc.), is there a generator or small fuel cell that could be installed in the space left after pulling out a dishwasher?

You could probably put solar panels on it with some batteries in the basement (cooler) and run electricity into those buildings.

Electrical gadget trouble?

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