Indiana school shooting

Recoil45 said:

You carry until bedtime. Then lock your bedroom door while it is on your nightstand.

This topic has been deeply discussed on forums in the antigun states who have laws like this on the books and this seems to be the most logical of all the options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Absolutely, but not what was being discussed.

ETA:Sorry, I just woke up.
It is what was being discussed, but doesn't address having the safe unlocked, with all guns being accessible.

Recoil45 said:

You carry until bedtime. Then lock your bedroom door while it is on your nightstand.

Click to expand...

That is pretty much me. There is always a firearm in the room I am in at the moment and it travels from room to room with me. All firearms are consolidated in either my safes or my bedroom at night, and the BR door is locked. And I always keep the alarm set, even when I am home. I do keep the safes unlocked for quick access when I am home, but religiously lock them every time I leave the property, even if it is 5 or 6 (or more) times per day. And I don't even have kids at home!

My bedroom door remains open to allow our dog access to her food and water in the kitchen.
She sleeps on the bed with us.

Something I wrote after the last school shooting:

Anyone who wants to kill a number of people will find the means to do so, with or without firearms. We have seen this in Europe with terrorists using vehicles to run people down. A disturbed student could kill just as many people by driving through the crowded parking lot at the end of the school day.

Rather than focusing on the tool, we must identify root causes if these tragedies are to be prevented. Why does a teen think murdering people is acceptable? What drives a kid to this extreme? Why are we seeing these now, when they were essentially nonexistent for so long? The lack of means is not an explanation, as access to firearms was easier in the past. Students having guns in their vehicles was not uncommon in many areas.

Granted, correlation does not imply causality. Some strong correlations exist, however. Examples include:
• Degradation of the family
• Less discipline at home
• Less discipline in the schools
• Declining role of church and Biblical teachings (e.g., less exposure to values and morals)
• Decreased interpersonal interactions due to electronic devices, social media, etc.
• During their most critical developmental years, children are far more likely to be raised by strangers in a mass setting (daycare) rather than by a parent in a family setting
• Both parents employed outside the home
• Use of drugs in an attempt to modify a child’s behavior
• Loosening morals
• Overall less involvement of parents in children’s lives
• Decreased sense of neighborhoods/communities

This problem will never be solved by focusing on the inanimate tool. Solutions can only come from identifying and addressing root causes.

ZX9RCAM said:

My bedroom door remains open to allow our dog access to her food and water in the kitchen.
She sleeps on the bed with us.

Click to expand...

Put food and water in your bathroom for her if your bath is part of a master suite.

oldag said:

Something I wrote after the last school shooting:
Anyone who wants to kill a number of people will find the means to do so, with or without firearms. We have seen this in Europe with terrorists using vehicles to run people down. A disturbed student could kill just as many people by driving through the crowded parking lot at the end of the school day.

Rather than focusing on the tool, we must identify root causes if these tragedies are to be prevented. Why does a teen think murdering people is acceptable? What drives a kid to this extreme? Why are we seeing these now, when they were essentially nonexistent for so long? The lack of means is not an explanation, as access to firearms was easier in the past. Students having guns in their vehicles was not uncommon in many areas.

Granted, correlation does not imply causality. Some strong correlations exist, however. Examples include:
• Degradation of the family
• Less discipline at home
• Less discipline in the schools
• Declining role of church and Biblical teachings (e.g., less exposure to values and morals)
• Decreased interpersonal interactions due to electronic devices, social media, etc.
• During their most critical developmental years, children are far more likely to be raised by strangers in a mass setting (daycare) rather than by a parent in a family setting
• Both parents employed outside the home
• Use of drugs in an attempt to modify a child’s behavior
• Loosening morals
• Overall less involvement of parents in children’s lives
• Decreased sense of neighborhoods/communities

This problem will never be solved by focusing on the inanimate tool. Solutions can only come from identifying and addressing root causes.

Click to expand...

It isn't the tool (gun), it is the access to the gun we are talking about. Why make it easy? And yes, they might just move on to some other tool, but they also might not if it wasn't easy to get at home.

As to your list of possible causes I would add violent video games and movies, which degrade the value of life.

AustinN4 said:

Put food and water in your bathroom for her if your bath is part of a master suite.

Click to expand...

It is, but her food has always been in the kitchen.
I don't feel a need to close the bedroom door, no kids in our house either.

AustinN4 said:

It isn't the tool (gun), it is the access to the gun we are talking about. Why make it easy? And yes, they might just move on to some other tool, but they also might not if it wasn't easy to get at home.

As to your list of possible causes I would add violent video games and movies, which degrade the value of life.

Click to expand...

This!
Absolutely!


And I used to laugh 20 years ago when people suggested music and video games play a part in it.

easy rider said:

It's funny that in the 60's I remember going to many homes as a child that had guns accessible and even at a young age I knew not to touch them. Even as a teen in the 70's I knew that messing with someones gun was a quick way to get my ass handed to me.

Click to expand...

We had firearms all around my house including a .22 rifle in my room from age 9. This was in the 90's. It wasn't funny and the date was irrelevant. It was about my parents taking the time to teach me safety and respect when around them. Also proper discipline when I stepped out of line.

I had to remind my GF constantly that she wasn't her kids "friend", she was their mother.
I came in to their life when they were 3 and 8.
The youngest is 25 now.

It bit her in the butt with her youngest daughter, letting her do stuff that I said she couldn't/shouldn't, without me knowing.

TreyG-20 said:

We had firearms all around my house including a .22 rifle in my room from age 9. This was in the 90's. It wasn't funny and the date was irrelevant. It was about my parents taking the time to teach me safety and respect when around them. Also proper discipline when I stepped out of line.

Click to expand...

Funny was rhetorical and the date pertained to my experience.

It’s been interesting for me to read this thread and to watch the news about Governor Greg Abbott’s three day symposium (and hoping he doesn’t do anything to infringe on our rights).

We’re all “gun people” here. And while there may be a general consensus as to how we got to this point (i.e., parenting issues, lack of moral direction, mental health issues, societal issues, etc., etc.), the question remains: how do we physically stop these attacks? And if successful in stopping “school” attacks, do the attackers simply turn to malls (or other locations where young people gather)?

Maybe the two questions can’t be separated? WHAT causes attacks and HOW to stop them.

Since it’s probably not realistic to think we can suddenly “fix” the parental / societal problems, I keep coming back to the idea of “hardening” the target (schools). Ever how you might define that; limiting access, metal detectors, arming teachers, increasing cops, etc.

But then, will malls need to do the same? Theaters? (Every place like a prison?). But how to put an end to this NOW? For as many different “motivations” as there are, is it even practical to think it can be ended? (Take Israel’s ongoing level of security as an example). Is it just our future?

First off, we (people, LE & Gov.) are not going to stop things from happening, you can only limit the outcome of when they do happen. That's the problem with the narrative of being able to "stop" anything by controlling an object. We can plan for when an attack happens, but we can't actually stop an attack from happening. Of course with a good plan in place it may lessen the frequency of such attacks.

busykngt said:

And if successful in stopping “school” attacks, do the attackers simply turn to malls (or other locations where young people gather)?

Click to expand...

Possibly and hardening those places would be on the private entity that owns them and the people to choose to go to such a place if it is not.

Some people don't have a choice to send their kids to a school other then the home, so I don't see the need of securing public schools the same as the need to secure a mall or other publically accessible areas if they are places one enters by choice.

AustinN4 said:

It isn't the tool (gun), it is the access to the gun we are talking about. Why make it easy? And yes, they might just move on to some other tool, but they also might not if it wasn't easy to get at home.

As to your list of possible causes I would add violent video games and movies, which degrade the value of life.

Click to expand...

One of my points is that for many, many decades (up to the 80's) kids had easy access to guns. Most folks did not lock them up. Teens (even early teens) had their own guns. Many kept them in their own bedroom. Some carried them in their vehicles. School shooting incidents were extremely rare for all that time. Access to guns is not a cause of these incidents.

So I cannot agree that the discussion should be around "access to guns". Really, that is just an extension of blaming the tool. By the time a kid is trying to get a gun, it is too late. The plan is being put into action. And if the kid can't get a gun? He will just drive a car through the parking lot when the bell rings. Probably kill and maim even more than with a rifle.

Nope, any discussion not around root causes will not achieve any improvement.

I have to agree with Oldag.
Before I was 10, we had BB guns, spears and archery equipment with broadheads in our room. And we did not go around killing each other. Pop's rifle was in the corner of his room, loaded. And we knew not to touch it. And we knew what it could do.

Access is not the problem. It is what kids are being tought. Worse, what they are NOT being tought.
It is a learning problem, not an access problem.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

oldag said:

One of my points is that for many, many decades (up to the 80's) kids had easy access to guns. Most folks did not lock them up. Teens (even early teens) had their own guns. Many kept them in their own bedroom. Some carried them in their vehicles.

Click to expand...

And I was one of them decades earlier than the 80s.

And if the kid can't get a gun? He will just drive a car through the parking lot when the bell rings.

Click to expand...

Don't agree with that as the conditioning to kill your enemies in violent video games is primarily based around guns.

And have you ever wondered why it is that school shooters are mostly boys? Why don't we have girls shooting up schools at the rate the boys are? I haven't searched for girl shooters but maybe it is even all boys. And who addictively plays violent video games? Mostly boys.

Maybe it’s because suicidal girls don’t have interest in taking innocent victims with them. Or maybe they’re preoccupied with leaving a presentable corpse behind. How can the occurrences be stopped or at least reduced to a rare occurrence?

Too much to quote so I'll jump right in.

I do believe some of these kids are looking to out do others or get them names in the history books. I was watching a video last night that mentioned that exactly from some of the shooters that have lived. Some of these kids have no one to look up to, no one correcting them and no one pulling for them. Also, recently heard about some girls that had either attempted or committed suicide partially based on a netflix shows called 13 reasons or something. What about the mostly Russian game called blue whale that may be linked to some 130 suicides? Some kids are very susceptible to those kinds of influences and the press continually making these shooters into infamous celebrities does no one any favors.

I've said for a while a public execution of a few of these would stop it. The next one that does and is caught in the act is taken out front. Put a round through the shooting hand, one through a knee cap and then the opposite shoulder of hand. Let them cry and wail for a few minutes and then between the eyes. Harsh? Yes! And rightly should be so. I'm also for drawing and quartering publicly. Bodies should be left in a field or buried in unmarked grave. Wanna hang them? Leave the body swinging for a few days then dispose of in same manner.

As far as completely hardening schools with metal detectors and such, no. I've been to places in Asia where the terrorist threat was so high you had to be checked before going into a mall or movie theater. Is that really the society we want our kids to know?

Unfortunately the problem is much bigger. Society has made everyone a victim, it's okay to punch or beat up Nazis and everyone not on board with MSM and Bernie, etc. is a Nazi, there's no patriotism in schools and no religion in schools. We've come to praise and worship the human and yet never hold one personally accountable for their own wrong doings instead we blame some issue or upbringing or a tool.

oldag said:

One of my points is that for many, many decades (up to the 80's) kids had easy access to guns. Most folks did not lock them up. Teens (even early teens) had their own guns. Many kept them in their own bedroom. Some carried them in their vehicles. School shooting incidents were extremely rare for all that time. Access to guns is not a cause of these incidents.

So I cannot agree that the discussion should be around "access to guns". Really, that is just an extension of blaming the tool. By the time a kid is trying to get a gun, it is too late. The plan is being put into action. And if the kid can't get a gun? He will just drive a car through the parking lot when the bell rings. Probably kill and maim even more than with a rifle.

Nope, any discussion not around root causes will not achieve any improvement.

Click to expand...

I fully agree. However if these killings WITH GUNS continue at the current pace we will see anti gun legislation pass at some point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk