Texas Republican Party Endorses Marijuana Decriminalization

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

McCrapper said:
Its not a naive view at all, you are talking about a college student which is prone to making dumbass decisions. You arent going to have thousands/millions give up on life to get high on pot or any drug whatsoever. There is nothing to support that.... I can see the possibility of people moving to colorado and getting high all the time, no doubt. However, its the same percentage of the population that were just potheads elsewhere and moved. Also, just like anything else, if something was illegal and people liked to do it previously and you legalize it all of a sudden theres a spike in usage but it returns back to normal levels within a period of time.

laughably naive... "There is nothing to support that?" There are plenty of studies showing significant increases in addiction rates in Colorado, MJ, Heroin, opioids...
http://www.cpr.org/news/story/chart...rowing-heroin-prescription-drug-abuse-problem
https://www.aspenridgenorth.com/blog/21-colorado-addiction-facts-may-surprise/
Even the state acknowledges the problem:
https://colorado.gov/pacific/marijuana/addiction

The college student I knew was just one example, there are literally thousands+ that are throwing their lives away... you could argue that's their choice, but denying it is happening is just denial.

McCrapper · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
laughably naive... "There is nothing to support that?" There are plenty of studies showing significant increases in addiction rates in Colorado, MJ, Heroin, opioids...
http://www.cpr.org/news/story/chart...rowing-heroin-prescription-drug-abuse-problem
https://www.aspenridgenorth.com/blog/21-colorado-addiction-facts-may-surprise/
Even the state acknowledges the problem:
https://colorado.gov/pacific/marijuana/addiction

The college student I knew was just one example, there are literally thousands+ that are throwing their lives away... you could argue that's their choice, but denying it is happening is just denial.

Your links dont even prove your point..... first link quoted.

Nationally, fatal heroin overdoses have risen again, this time by 39 percent from 2012 to 2013, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Colorado is no exception to the trend. The number of heroin overdose deaths here rose from 91 people in 2012 to 118 people in 2013, according to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment.

Link two. This a link to a treatment center, speaking on addiction and all the facts of addiction in Colorado. The only mention of marijuana is that 50% of 21 year olds have tried it. Fact #1 and #21 are quoted below for you. Marijuana is treating the ailment that cause addiction to the real killers, opioid prescription drugs.

Treatment Admissions Have Tripled for Certain Drugs
Studies found that between 2014-2012, treatment admission have tripled. The drugs that attributed to the need for addiction treatment include:
Oxycodone Hydrocodone Hydromorphone Methadone Fentanyl

The state funded a trial at the University of Colorado to determine whether medical marijuana can replaceopioid pain medications. Evidence is showing that cannabis can potentially treat neuropathic pain. They wanted to know if marijuana could ease chronic back and neck pain, a common reason people looked to get pain medication. The university conducted studies to determine if marijuana could ease this type of chronic disorder. The survey conducted included 184 patients with chronic back and neck pain. The results were that 86% of patients reported that it moderately or effectively relieved their pain. Over 70% said that marijuana provided more relief than opioid prescription painkiller.

Lastly, link three is a state link about marijuana usage, there is no surprise there considering they have legalized marijuana. I included a link to gambling addiction, in case someone has a problem with that. It is a resource to be used in case you have a problem, just like that Colorado link you provided.

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/sa/FindingServices/ProblemGambling.shtm

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

so there's zero correlation that addiction rates rose for all drugs when MJ was legalized for recreational use? yeah, yeah, I know correlation does not necessarily equal causation... but it can't be ruled out either.

ok, keep your head buried in the sand... move to Colorado if you think it's so fantastic. I don't want to experiment on Texas to see if it holds true here.

toddnjoyce · Jun 20, 2018

Trying to move back on topic. My perspective is evolving. To me, I believe this is no different than sanctuary city/state policies laws.

I don’t believe states have the right to preempt federal law in such cases.

McCrapper · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
so there's zero correlation that addiction rates rose for all drugs when MJ was legalized for recreational use?

ok, keep your head buried in the sand... move to Colorado if you think it's so fantastic. I don't want to experiment on Texas to see if it holds true here.

There isn't anything that proves your point otherwise you would post it.

There is a near-universal agreement that the opioid crisis was caused by an influx of legal prescription painkillers and is thus unrelated to marijuana use. Are we trying to reduce overdoses and actual hard addiction or are we just going to blame the devils lettuce because it feels good?

Darkpriest667 · Jun 20, 2018

toddnjoyce said:
That’s your opinion and it’s fine to have.

It’s also remarkably shallow. Until this issue is dealt with at the federal level, state efforts will result in migration.

Here’s a real resource problem for you: until the feds allow interstate commerce in marijuana, the product comes from within state borders.

It takes a shit-ton of water to grow marijuana commercially. That’s the same water you use to drink, use to bathe, use to water your lawn with.

Ready to be in stage IV water restrictions 24/7/365? That’s what you’re in for. Then, let’s talk about moving the money. It’s an all cash business. Banks can’t be involved, credit cards either; just buying whatever it takes to smoke one is federal money laundering charges.

Oh yeah, that whole patriot act thing? Guess what; you’ve just waived any and all rights you’ve got by violating federal laws. The only reason this hasn’t come to a Supreme Court decision is because federal LE has been hands off.

Oh effing please Do you know how much F***ing corn they grow in the DESERT of the panhandle and other water tight places? Corn is one of the most water heavy crops you can grow and, because of government subsidizing, everyone grows the shit out of it. Weed takes a lot less water to grow than corn and half the farmers in America are growing corn RIGHT NOW. But let's talk about a similar production... Do you think TOBACCO is a water light crop?

sidebite252 said:
I don’t understand the shallow comment? I also think it needs to be decriminalize by the feds as well. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear in my Comments. I still think most of the other observations on what you witnessed would possibly be a mute point if it was decriminalized at the federal level. Sure I could be wrong. I didn’t move here from another state. Born & raised. I Not a liberal. Don’t be so mean. It’s just my opinion. We should be able to have these conversations shouldn’t we?

Just understand a lot of folks on this forum and in Texas are teetotalers who will hold their bible to their chest in their graves... They're straight out of Leviticus and they'd stone you to death for blasphemy if it was legal. Don't mind them too much.

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

McCrapper said:
There isn't anything that proves your point otherwise you would post it.

There is a near-universal agreement that the opioid crisis was caused by an influx of legal prescription painkillers and is thus unrelated to marijuana use. Are we trying to reduce overdoses and actual hard addiction or are we just going to blame the devils lettuce because it feels good?

Either that or I have a job, and don't have time to do research you're probably just going to dismiss anyway... because you're already convinced you're right. Go ahead and experiment in Texas, just enjoy the consequences laid out by people who warned you. Or move somewhere it's already legal... or go there on weekends and toke up to your heart's content.

As I've already stated, I have no illusion that I have any control, the masses will make stupid choices and I'm sure they will **** it all up...

BRD@66 · Jun 20, 2018

It has been said that arguing on the internet is akin to competing in the Special Olympics.

McCrapper · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
Either that or I have a job, and don't have time to do research you're probably just going to dismiss anyway... because you're already convinced you're right. Go ahead and experiment in Texas, just enjoy the consequences laid out by people who warned you. Or move somewhere it's already legal... or go there on weekends and toke up to your heart's content.

As I've already stated, I have no illusion that I have any control, the masses will make stupid choices and I'm sure they will **** it all up...

Just as you are convinced that recreational marijuana has made addiction rates soar! It hasnt but you believe it. Not just Texas my friend, nationwide decriminalization/legalization. I don't smoke anymore nor do I want to, if I did I wouldn't wait wait for legislation. I would just get high like the millions of people who do it illegally already.

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

McCrapper said:
Just as you are convinced that recreational marijuana has made addiction rates soar! It hasnt but you believe it. Not just Texas my friend, nationwide decriminalization/legalization. I don't smoke anymore nor do I want to, if I did I wouldn't wait wait for legislation. I would just get high like the millions of people who do it illegally already.

yeah, you didn't live there when recreational was legalized and watch it happen.
So remind me what's wrong with leaving it illegal, if those that want to are just going to get it anyway?

just make it a citation offense, with significant fines... get the revenue stream (fines instead of taxes), keep it illegal and in line with Federal law (not to mention treaties the US has signed internationally as well... which is another hurdle everyone likes to ignore when asking to legalize Federally).

McCrapper · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
yeah, you didn't live there when recreational was legalized and watch it happen.
So remind me what's wrong with leaving it illegal, if those that want to are just going to get it anyway?

just make it a citation offense, with significant fines... get the revenue stream (fines instead of taxes), keep it illegal and in line with Federal law (not to mention treaties the US has signed internationally as well... which is another hurdle everyone likes to ignore when asking to legalize Federally).

We just dropped out of the human rights council and we are breaking agreements left and right..... Its not much of a hurdle.

What is wrong with it is we are tying up our court systems and filling our jails with non-violent offenders. Tax dollars wasted trying to arrest and stop the movement of weed, waste of time and resources, like I have said before. Imprisoning these people costs a hell of a lot more than letting a few vagabonds roam around.

benenglish · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
you didn't live there when recreational was legalized and watch it happen.

I wasn't either but I visited. I suppose my impression was skewed by the fact that I spent my time in a small town that was a feeder to some ski areas; i.e. very touristy but off-season so pretty dead. In any event, it seemed that a huge percentage of the people I dealt with were baked. The staff at the motel was always high. Half the local folks working retail were consuming. Locals at the laundromat openly discussed the state of their "crops" and it was abundantly clear what they were growing; they weren't in the least bit circumspect about it.

In short, Colorado, in my limited experience, was a pretty tolerant state before the law changed.

So my question is - Are you saying that the change in the law impacted the whole state or just caused the associated problems to surface and become serious in the urban areas? I ask because it seems to me that rural Colorado had already established a de facto balance between the positives and the negatives in the matter.

Or, it could just be that my experience was so limited that I'm completely off base.

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

McCrapper said:
We just dropped out of the human rights council and we are breaking agreements left and right..... Its not much of a hurdle.

What is wrong with it is we are tying up our court systems and filling our jails with non-violent offenders. Tax dollars wasted trying to arrest and stop the movement of weed, waste of time and resources, like I have said before. Imprisoning these people costs a hell of a lot more than letting a few vagabonds roam around.

I didn't say to make it a jailable offense for weed... I said "Citation" (like a traffic ticket)

Ole Cowboy · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
I didn't say to make it a jailable offense for weed... I said "Citation" (like a traffic ticket)

So you are stoned and driving, have a wreck, (your fault) how does the traffic cop test you for DUI at the scene???

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

Ole Cowboy said:
So you are stoned and driving, have a wreck, (your fault) how does the traffic cop test you for DUI at the scene???

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/difficult-to-develop-roadside-test-for-marijuana#2

roadside tests (standardized), and then either oral fluid or blood test... the oral fluid test is new- but can be administered in the field. As is the case with alcohol, refusal to take a test revokes your driver's license.

TheDan · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
I have seen people drop out of college and wind up moving back in with their parents after 'discovering' drugs.

The biggest potheads I know are ones who never used any drug (including alcohol) until college. Something about coming to it in your 20's makes it stick with you for life. The interesting thing is they all finished college, have jobs, pay their taxes, etc... I think there's far more functional addicts and casual users than people realize. They just don't stand out as much as the problem causers.

If it weren't weed then it would be something else for the feckless people. They were broken first; that's why they become dysfunctional addicts.

toddnjoyce · Jun 20, 2018

benenglish said:
...

In short, Colorado, in my limited experience, was a pretty tolerant state before the law changed.

So my question is - Are you saying that the change in the law impacted the whole state or just caused the associated problems to surface and become serious in the urban areas? ...

Or, it could just be that my experience was so limited that I'm completely off base.

Ben, my experience while assigned to Ft Carson from 2013 -2016 was that both medical and recreational were very local - county by county - experiences.

In general, I feel the state allowed a very local and libertarian view implementation of the laws, which is probably the best way.

Generally speaking, urban areas with more ‘social support’ programs attracted more people who would take advantage of those programs. It’s kind of like Hawaii; who’d have thunk there were so many homeless in Hawaii?

Ole Cowboy · Jun 20, 2018

TheDan said:
The biggest potheads I know are ones who never used any drug (including alcohol) until college. Something about coming to it in your 20's makes it stick with you for life. The interesting thing is they all finished college, have jobs, pay their taxes, etc... I think there's far more functional addicts and casual users than people realize. They just don't stand out as much as the problem causers.

If it weren't weed then it would be something else for the feckless people. They were broken first; that's why they become dysfunctional addicts.

I had worked with 'Crotch' (real name was Crouch) for over a year, he was a team leader, great guy, everyone liked him, bosses and us boys, good leader, fair, straight shooter.

He LOVED his ice tea, or so we thought. That BIG quart thermos he would drink every day. One day we were all sitting at the table and he was talking to us on production issues of some sort when suddenly he went silent, closed his eyes and fell off the stool. Everyone is thinking heart attack and who knows what else. Ambulance picks him up and rushes him to the hospital. Turns out he was a functional boozer drinking almost a half gallon every day, 7 days a week. We never saw him again, I heard he had got another job in the outfit and had dried out but who knows. It was not ice tea, but straight booze, he had a steady diet of booze and breath mints.

atticus finch · Jun 20, 2018

Lunyfringe said:
You're full of shit... driving under influence is still illegal in states where it's legalized, and so is smoking in public... so that would not be dismissed... part of the revenue stream is 1000's of citations for public use... but DUI is jailable offense.

Again:

The claim of being able to detect the odor of weed in a car constitutes probable cause given pot is illegal.
It is a specious claim of which there is no immediate defense as how do you prove the cop is lying?
Once he / she claims they smell the odor of pot in a car, they have probable cause to search without your consent or a warrant.

Weed is legalized? So what if there's an odor, that does not indicate any evidence of a crime hence no probable cause.
Consequently: " I do not consent to any searches...." Stands.

Lunyfringe · Jun 20, 2018

atticus finch said:
Again:

The claim of being able to detect the odor of weed in a car constitutes probable cause given pot is illegal.
It is a specious claim of which there is no immediate defense as how do you prove the cop is lying?
Once he / she claims they smell the odor of pot in a car, they have probable cause to search without your consent or a warrant.

Weed is legalized? So what if there's an odor, that does not indicate any evidence of a crime hence no probable cause.
Consequently: " I do not consent to any searches...." Stands.

"step out of the car, we're going to do a roadside drug test" to the driver... passengers have to get out for the officer's safety.

but I suppose you think all cops lie and are out to get you... :beat:

Texas Republican Party Endorses Marijuana Decriminalization

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