Texas SOT

Good deal gun thread

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • avvidclif

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 30, 2017
    5,794
    96
    Van Zandt County
    got these in a few days ago... Very loosely packed in just two cardboard boxes inside another box. No real shipping protection, but they seem to have survived. Definitely a mixed bag of brass, but visually nothing seems "seconds" about the ammo. Will see how it shoots this weekend hopefully.

    View attachment 141202
    View attachment 141203
    View attachment 141204
    View attachment 141205

    I made it a personal rule years ago that I won't shoot anyone's reloads but mine.

    As a side note I stopped by Buffalo Creek Gun Range (on 64 west of Tyler) the other day and they had H4350 for $199/8 lbs. Also CCI BR-2 primers for $39.
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    I made it a personal rule years ago that I won't shoot anyone's reloads but mine.
    Reloads is about all I shoot. Mostly from LAX Ammo recently, but other companies, too.
    You're probably both right and just talking past each other. There are reloads and there are reloads.
    • Bubba just got his new reloading gear and wants to share.
      • No thanks.
    • Bubba got his reloading gear a while back, spent too much money on progressives and accessories, and now wants to recoup some costs so he's selling baggies full of 9mm at the local gun show.
      • No thanks.
    • Bubba got his reloading gear 40 years ago, is truly competent, has forgotten more than I'll ever know, and has decided that producing high-dollar ammo in uncommon calibers is profitable.
      • OK.
    • Bubba and his sons shot way too much and, because they had a head for business, they actually set up a plant, hired the right people, and produce vast quantities of "commercial reloads" that are, for practice, basically indistinguishable from the virgin stuff by the "name" ammo companies.
      • Cool. I shoot that stuff all the time.
     

    etxag

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 17, 2017
    643
    11
    Lindale, TX
    You're probably both right and just talking past each other. There are reloads and there are reloads.
    • Bubba just got his new reloading gear and wants to share.
      • No thanks.
    • Bubba got his reloading gear a while back, spent too much money on progressives and accessories, and now wants to recoup some costs so he's selling baggies full of 9mm at the local gun show.
      • No thanks.
    • Bubba got his reloading gear 40 years ago, is truly competent, has forgotten more than I'll ever know, and has decided that producing high-dollar ammo in uncommon calibers is profitable.
      • OK.
    • Bubba and his sons shot way too much and, because they had a head for business, they actually set up a plant, hired the right people, and produce vast quantities of "commercial reloads" that are, for practice, basically indistinguishable from the virgin stuff by the "name" ammo companies.
      • Cool. I shoot that stuff all the time.

    Who are some of these commercial reloading companies that are reputable. I'm seriously asking because I'd like to know... not trying to disagree.
     

    Lunyfringe

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 22, 2017
    1,402
    96
    Canton, TX
    • Bubba got his reloading gear 40 years ago, is truly competent, has forgotten more than I'll ever know, and has decided that producing high-dollar ammo in uncommon calibers is profitable.
      • Bubba is illegally selling ammo unless he has a type 06 or 07 FFL, type 10 FFL for AP ammo.
    • Bubba and his sons shot way too much and, because they had a head for business, they actually set up a plant, hired the right people, and produce vast quantities of "commercial reloads" that are, for practice, basically indistinguishable from the virgin stuff by the "name" ammo companies.
      • Cool. I shoot that stuff all the time.

    Just fixed the one situation... technically the ATF can pinch you for selling ammo you reloaded without the requisite license.
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    Who are some of these commercial reloading companies that are reputable. I'm seriously asking because I'd like to know... not trying to disagree.
    My usual, though not set-in-stone, standard is places that do brass exchange. If the business is mature enough to have a brass exchange program, they're probably good enough to use their ammo for practice. Of course, my frame of reference comes from decades ago when there were a large number of places doing .38 Special, 148-gr HBWC loads almost exclusively for the police market. I have a few boxes from back then from companies that haven't existed for years. Mastercast was among the last of the old guard but they stopped doing it many years ago.

    Until recently, the most common cite for reliable reloads that gave you a discount for brass exchange was Freedom Munitions. They've suspended their program. I found their commercial reloads to be of good quality. Distinguishing between good quality and factory new quality would require more than 7-yard testing and I've never extensively done that with commercial pistol reloads so, for me, they were virtually indistinguishable from new. In general, Freedom Munitions is a ymmv prospect; a search on TGT will turn up both pro and con opinions.
    • Sellers who still do brass exchange:
      • I'll give Georgia Arms a try when I've finished up my Freedom stuff. I've never used them but at least they have a brass exchange program and, from what I've read, a pretty good reputation.
      • Zero ammo via rozedist.com has an excellent reputation in some circles and they still talk about brass exchange on their web site, though I can't really find specific information. I suppose I'd have to call them.
      • Bite the Bullet exchanges brass but I've never used it or talked to anyone who did.
    • Excluding a brass exchange program criteria:
      • TheDan and toddnjoyce cite LAX ammo. I've never used them but their word is good enough for me to buy 1000 rounds of something to test.
      • I've never heard anyone complain about the quality of any Black Hills ammo, including their remanufactured stuff. I've shot it and would again.
      • MBI is widely known but it comes in plastic bags and I have a prejudice against any maker who does that so I won't be trying it. Again, ymmv.
      • HSM is sold by (among others) Champion's Choice and I've never known Champion's choice to sell anything sub-par.
      • I've used Ultramax with no problems.
      • Brands not used by me but easy to find people online who like them include:
        • HPR and
        • North Georgia Reloading.
    How's that for a start?

    With all remanufactured ammo, it's easy to go online and find some people who think it's great and others who say it's crap. You'll have to risk a few of your own dollars to make your own decision. Personally, I have no qualms about taking that risk.
     

    etxag

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 17, 2017
    643
    11
    Lindale, TX
    My usual, though not set-in-stone, standard is places that do brass exchange. If the business is mature enough to have a brass exchange program, they're probably good enough to use their ammo for practice. Of course, my frame of reference comes from decades ago when there were a large number of places doing .38 Special, 148-gr HBWC loads almost exclusively for the police market. I have a few boxes from back then from companies that haven't existed for years. Mastercast was among the last of the old guard but they stopped doing it many years ago.

    Until recently, the most common cite for reliable reloads that gave you a discount for brass exchange was Freedom Munitions. They've suspended their program. I found their commercial reloads to be of good quality. Distinguishing between good quality and factory new quality would require more than 7-yard testing and I've never extensively done that with commercial pistol reloads so, for me, they were virtually indistinguishable from new. In general, Freedom Munitions is a ymmv prospect; a search on TGT will turn up both pro and con opinions.
    • Sellers who still do brass exchange:
      • I'll give Georgia Arms a try when I've finished up my Freedom stuff. I've never used them but at least they have a brass exchange program and, from what I've read, a pretty good reputation.
      • Zero ammo via rozedist.com has an excellent reputation in some circles and they still talk about brass exchange on their web site, though I can't really find specific information. I suppose I'd have to call them.
      • Bite the Bullet exchanges brass but I've never used it or talked to anyone who did.
    • Excluding a brass exchange program criteria:
      • TheDan and toddnjoyce cite LAX ammo. I've never used them but their word is good enough for me to buy 1000 rounds of something to test.
      • I've never heard anyone complain about the quality of any Black Hills ammo, including their remanufactured stuff. I've shot it and would again.
      • MBI is widely known but it comes in plastic bags and I have a prejudice against any maker who does that so I won't be trying it. Again, ymmv.
      • HSM is sold by (among others) Champion's Choice and I've never known Champion's choice to sell anything sub-par.
      • I've used Ultramax with no problems.
      • Brands not used by me but easy to find people online who like them include:
        • HPR and
        • North Georgia Reloading.
    How's that for a start?

    With all remanufactured ammo, it's easy to go online and find some people who think it's great and others who say it's crap. You'll have to risk a few of your own dollars to make your own decision. Personally, I have no qualms about taking that risk.

    Thanks for the responses.
     

    TxStetson

    Opinionated and Irritable
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    May 9, 2013
    10,056
    96
    The Big Country
    My usual, though not set-in-stone, standard is places that do brass exchange. If the business is mature enough to have a brass exchange program, they're probably good enough to use their ammo for practice. Of course, my frame of reference comes from decades ago when there were a large number of places doing .38 Special, 148-gr HBWC loads almost exclusively for the police market. I have a few boxes from back then from companies that haven't existed for years. Mastercast was among the last of the old guard but they stopped doing it many years ago.

    Until recently, the most common cite for reliable reloads that gave you a discount for brass exchange was Freedom Munitions. They've suspended their program. I found their commercial reloads to be of good quality. Distinguishing between good quality and factory new quality would require more than 7-yard testing and I've never extensively done that with commercial pistol reloads so, for me, they were virtually indistinguishable from new. In general, Freedom Munitions is a ymmv prospect; a search on TGT will turn up both pro and con opinions.
    • Sellers who still do brass exchange:
      • I'll give Georgia Arms a try when I've finished up my Freedom stuff. I've never used them but at least they have a brass exchange program and, from what I've read, a pretty good reputation.
      • Zero ammo via rozedist.com has an excellent reputation in some circles and they still talk about brass exchange on their web site, though I can't really find specific information. I suppose I'd have to call them.
      • Bite the Bullet exchanges brass but I've never used it or talked to anyone who did.
    • Excluding a brass exchange program criteria:
      • TheDan and toddnjoyce cite LAX ammo. I've never used them but their word is good enough for me to buy 1000 rounds of something to test.
      • I've never heard anyone complain about the quality of any Black Hills ammo, including their remanufactured stuff. I've shot it and would again.
      • MBI is widely known but it comes in plastic bags and I have a prejudice against any maker who does that so I won't be trying it. Again, ymmv.
      • HSM is sold by (among others) Champion's Choice and I've never known Champion's choice to sell anything sub-par.
      • I've used Ultramax with no problems.
      • Brands not used by me but easy to find people online who like them include:
        • HPR and
        • North Georgia Reloading.
    How's that for a start?

    With all remanufactured ammo, it's easy to go online and find some people who think it's great and others who say it's crap. You'll have to risk a few of your own dollars to make your own decision. Personally, I have no qualms about taking that risk.
    I’ve used HPR, and it functioned flawlessly, but I can usually find new WWB cheaper.
     
    Last edited:

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    I made it a personal rule years ago that I won't shoot anyone's reloads but mine.
    I have a few boxes from back then from companies that haven't existed for years.
    Hate to quote myself but I thought an illustration would be in order. Among these .38 Special, 148-grain HBWC target loads...

    jXKTyy6.jpg


    ...the top two boxes are commercial reloads, the bottom two are factory ammo.

    In my testing, which I expect no one to replicate or accept:
    1. The Western is the most accurate (and hottest) .38 target load I've ever found,
    2. The Amron is in 2nd place, tied with the (not pictured) current Federal Match and old CCI Blazer aluminum,
    3. The Precision is for blasting, and
    4. The Peters is too old for anything but admiring on a shelf.
    Thus, in my experience and opinion, it's possible for commercial reloads to be as good or better than ammo from major-name makers. It just takes some digging to find out who's making the loads you want and then some time spent testing to decide for yourself.
     

    subseashooter

    Use Your Imagination.....
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 7, 2013
    1,918
    46
    Here and There
    If you ever want to get that Peters out of your way please keep me in mind. Being that that is my middle name, I love collecting their stuff.
    Hate to quote myself but I thought an illustration would be in order. Among these .38 Special, 148-grain HBWC target loads...

    View attachment 141372

    ...the top two boxes are commercial reloads, the bottom two are factory ammo.

    In my testing, which I expect no one to replicate or accept:
    1. The Western is the most accurate (and hottest) .38 target load I've ever found,
    2. The Amron is in 2nd place, tied with the (not pictured) current Federal Match and old CCI Blazer aluminum,
    3. The Precision is for blasting, and
    4. The Peters is too old for anything but admiring on a shelf.
    Thus, in my experience and opinion, it's possible for commercial reloads to be as good or better than ammo from major-name makers. It just takes some digging to find out who's making the loads you want and then some time spent testing to decide for yourself.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    avvidclif

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 30, 2017
    5,794
    96
    Van Zandt County
    Ben I have no idea about the current crop of reloaders. My bias was formed years ago when I was on a pistol team. I also reloaded on a Star progressive. All of our ammo, both practice and match, was tested using a Ransom rest at 50 yds. We never found any reloads that matched factory and Federal was usually the best, depending on lot. And had the softest primers. Our practice ammo was loaded at the range on an Ammo-Load and was pretty good but not up to factory. My Star could match the Ammo-Load but only in quality, not quantity. None of the commercial reloads back then were worth much. One company that was selling NEW ammo, not reloads, for target shooting used lead that was so soft that after about 500 rounds little lead fingers would be sticking out of the end of the barrel and it looked like a smoothbore.

    On another eye-opener we found the old saw about a longer barrel being more accurate was an old wives tale. It's sight radius that matters, not barrel length. When a 2" S&W Model 19 will shoot a 2" group at 50 yds, it ain't barrel length.
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    I have no idea about the current crop of reloaders
    I don't have in-depth experience with match-testing of current reloaders. As I said previously...
    Distinguishing between good quality and factory new quality would require more than 7-yard testing and I've never extensively done that
    ...so my original intent was to address the more common needs of folks wanting self-defense practice ammo.

    When it comes to true match ammo, Zero has a good reputation. In fact...
    Federal was usually the best
    ...I note that the only difference between Zero bulk ammo and Zero match ammo is the use of Federal primers. I'm guessing the softer primer cups needed for highly tuned PPC revolvers is probably the reason but I thought their use of Federal primers and your cite of Federal ammo being the best made for an interesting juxtaposition.

    Off Topic Warning
    tested using a Ransom rest at 50 yds
    I hope it worked well for y'all. I will note, however, that using the RR is a skill in itself, one that not all users possess. There's an old story that when Brian Zins had his match pistol tested in a Ransom Rest many years ago, the result was 4" groups at 50 yards. Since he was shooting some smaller groups by hand, the story has been taken as a joke, a fabrication, or just his armorers screwing around with him. No matter, I've seen awful results from an RR that was not properly settled in or with an operator who didn't use it properly.

    None of this is meant to disparage the practices of your old team. It's a great tool. And the notion that you can't beat, say, Federal Match with any volume reload is one I won't dispute in any depth. I think it's possible. I feel sure it's possible to come so close that the differences are statistically insignificant on the line. That's a pretty fine distinction and I'm not sure it's really important, anyway.

    WAY Off Topic Warning
    the old saw about a longer barrel being more accurate was an old wives tale
    Silhouette shooters widely proved ca 1980 (and thoughtful folks knew it before then) that, all else being equal, shorter barrels are always more accurate than longer barrels. I am constantly amazed by people who don't know this; it's been established fact at least since I was a child.

    Back On Topic

    Since we're talking about wadcutter loads, mostly, this stuff is under $0.20/rd and might be worth a try.
     
    Last edited:
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

    Support

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    116,119
    Messages
    2,953,343
    Members
    34,941
    Latest member
    Irowland1994
    Top Bottom