Las Vegas chase and shootout

Wildcat Diva · Jul 18, 2018

sharkey said:
Exactly. I guess my point was missed by you and Austin. Here we have a bona fide bad a** who took care of business and a couple here keep talking about what "could of" happened but it didn't happen. Some seem very concerned about policy violations.
He is the exact opposite of Peterson who was a coward and did nothing and got innocent kids murdered. I was being a bit sarcastic about Peterson sleeping well at night.

It would be nice to see a lot more attaboy comments or "kudos to you" to the Metro Officer that took care of business.

I DO think he was very brave and got the job done and has earned my respect for what he did. I thank him very much for his dedication and courage.

I also see how much one’s life potentially depends on firearm handling. Let me go dry fire and practice mag changes now, because this video was surely motivation.

It’s obvious that stress can get the better of anyone for sure and I want things to be as seamless as possible if I am ever needing to defend myself from someone threatening life.

oldag · Jul 18, 2018

diesel1959 said:
I don't know if you noticed or not, but the officer didn't even draw his pistol until they were OFF the crowded, busy streets. Once the violators had finally turned off onto a quieter side street, the officer took the appropriate action required.

It's not a matter of thinking it's "okay", it's a matter of stopping dangerous felons that have already killed, are spraying shots at marked police cruisers and into public, and . . . . Society EXPECTS that its police will shut folks like that down and pronto. Had the officer dropped back and the guys continued their felonious actions, the police would have been rightly-pilloried for allowing it to occur. It's not like the officer was chasing a traffic violator. Keep in mind just what the hell the guys were being pursued for before you sound off. Please.

I am fully aware of why the felons were being pursued. But this guy was not the only cop in town. To hang back and follow until the situation could be concluded in a more controlled manner would have avoided the risk of wild rounds hitting an innocent.

oldag · Jul 18, 2018

pronstar said:
I’d much rather have this cops like this patrolling the mean streets, versus the Coward from Broward County Sheriff’s Office.

“To protect and serve” means you run toward danger to stop threats to the public IMHO.

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It does not have to be one of the two extremes. And the vast majority of the LEO's are in the happy medium.

Wildcat Diva · Jul 18, 2018

Well on a positive note, I’m now in a running argument with a stubborn geezer on a YouTube comments section of one of the uploads of this video about whether the cop changed a clip or a magazine.

Wish me luck.

(It’s not any of you guys, is it?)

AustinN4 · Jul 18, 2018

Wildcat Diva said:
Well on a positive note, I’m now in a running argument with a stubborn geezer on a YouTube comments section of one of the uploads of this video about whether the cop changed a clip or a magazine.

Unfortunately, due to common usage (common misuse in this case) the dictionary uses both terms now so you are both correct, at least by dictionary standards. But they will always be magazines to this old geezer.

Wildcat Diva · Jul 18, 2018

I referenced the need for precise speech in the age of conflating semi and full auto. I think I have the high ground.

oldag · Jul 18, 2018

Don't try to tell WW2 or Korea vets that you don't put a clip in a 1911 or a Thompson. Gen. George S. Patton also referred to them as clips. But what did he know?

I never understood the elitism some have on this terminology.

AustinN4 · Jul 18, 2018

easy rider · Jul 18, 2018

oldag said:
Don't try to tell WW2 or Korea vets that you don't put a clip in a 1911 or a Thompson. Gen. George S. Patton also referred to them as clips. But what did he know?

I never understood the elitism some have on this terminology.

Using proper terms is in their proper form is a form of elitism? Is that a liberal way of putting it?

toddnjoyce · Jul 18, 2018

Wildcat Diva said:
...
Please educate me as to if thumbs crossed grip is taught as something that if works for you then fine, or if this is considered bad form. His crossed thumb WAS down pretty far, so maybe it’s kosher for him?

...

I don’t know what is taught to LE; my military experience is going to to say not crossing thumbs is good form, but what counts is qualifying.

We used to train stress shoots where you’d start with 25 push-ups, then engage a pop-up target that was anywhere between 7 and 300 yds. When a pop-up is hit, it drops down, so you know when it’s successful. Anything closer than 25 yds was a pistol target, anything beyond was a rifle target.

Once done with that, sprint to the end of the firing line, do another series of exercises, then engage another series of targets.

Very humbling experience.

sharkey · Jul 18, 2018

AustinN4 said:
A least get it correct, sharkey. My beef was not with the officer but with with Frank59, who said in part:

My problem was with the "at all costs" comment. I was trying to find Frank59's threshold for "at all costs" as his comment seemed pretty extreme to me so I threw out a hypothetical number (5 civies) but he never responded.

No, I got it right. You threw out a hypothetical, which is easy to do from The comfort of your home and keyboard. Most can interpret comments here and know not to be so literal. I didn't take his comment to mean the officer can do whatever the hell he wants. Maybe the Q should be - Why did his comment seem pretty extreme to you?

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oldag · Jul 18, 2018

easy rider said:
Using proper terms is in their proper form is a form of elitism? Is that a liberal way of putting it?

Clip is a proper term, see what I posted above.

It has been fairly recently that some have tried to assert otherwise, in an air of elitism (e.g., disdain for those using "clip").

sharkey · Jul 18, 2018

Wildcat Diva said:
I also see how much one’s life potentially depends on firearm handling. Let me go dry fire and practice mag changes now, because this video was surely motivation.

It’s obvious that stress can get the better of anyone for sure and I want things to be as seamless as possible if I am ever needing to defend myself from someone threatening life.

Stress makes the body do funny things and complex motor skills are diminished, auditory exclusion happens, adrenaline is dumped, heart rate jacks up, tunnel vision occurs, etc. All done as survival mechanisms the brain tells the body. Proper training can help minimize this but unless you are routinely in a gun fight, it will be a factor.
I think the thumbs crossed was a reaction to this because no instructor I know teaches that. The Active Self Protection videos on YouTube are good examples too. Many shoot one handed when they practice with two hands. Prepare, be aware, and take action when facing assaulters.

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easy rider · Jul 18, 2018

There is actually a difference between clip and magazine, you can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't make it proper.

AustinN4 · Jul 18, 2018

easy rider said:
There is actually a difference between clip and magazine, you can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't make it proper.

We know that but the dictionary folks don't, unfortunately.

dmancornell · Jul 18, 2018

toddnjoyce said:
So it’s okay for criminals to recklessly discharge a firearm one or multiple times while being pursued by law enforcement?

The criminals forced this situation by committing the crime to begin with, by failing to stop and comply with LE.

Or is your position that had LE not become involved, then the two outstanding men in the vehicle being chased would have never committed a crime to begin with?

Or is your position that if engaged, LE should be required to disengage and retreat from a suspects shooting at them in order to create a more safe situation for the general public?

I’ll be totally honest: I don’t understand your thought process.

If you were in this officer’s shoes, what would you have done differently that would have prevented the criminals from starting to shoot to begin with?

Nice strawman. Calling for caution does not excuse what we saw from the suspects, nor does it mean abandoning pursuit entirely.

You literally spelled out the thought process: a more safe situation for the general public by not forcing a confrontation in a place where a cop firing wildly through a windshield is likely to cause collateral damage. And yet you say you don't understand it. The logical conclusion here is you don't care about collateral damage, much like the cop.

AustinN4 · Jul 18, 2018

sharkey said:
You threw out a hypothetical, which is easy to do from The comfort of your home and keyboard.

Pretty much like the "at all costs". Language matters. Now where is that spreadsheet?

BRD@66 · Jul 18, 2018

Well, at least we can all agree that
(oops, never mind).

oldag · Jul 18, 2018

easy rider said:
There is actually a difference between clip and magazine, you can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't make it proper.

So go argue with Patton.

dmancornell · Jul 18, 2018

diesel1959 said:
You need to do some ride-alongs, Son. Seriously. There are things going on in the ugly part of society with which you are woefully unfamiliar.

And that justifies police hypocrisy? Serve and protect by putting the public in danger? We all know how difficult aimed one-handed fire is, mag-dumping one-handed through a windshield while driving is the definition of spray and pray, and he saw fit to do it in the middle of a suburban street.

Spare me your "rough men stand ready" nonsense, that only works for gullible children. Subconsciously you must know this, hence your use of "son".

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