1911s
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And I ask where's the white women
Inspector43
Everything I Own Is Paid For
"if it rattles take it to battle" where did that comment originate?
Inspector43,
I do NOT know where the saying started BUT it was commonplace in the RVN period & likely long before that.
(My Uncle Wayne went ashore with the Naval Landing Party at Iwo Jima & later said that the dirt/sand/grime "clogged up many weapons", including his M1 Carbine.)
Firearms that work FINE in civilian/police service often do NOT work well or sometimes NOT at all in "close combat" conditions.
(During The Nam, the M16 was commonly called, "The Jam-o-matic" or "The Mattel Special". = The commonplace saying in those long ago days, with more than a bit of bitter GI-humor/sarcasm was, "You can tell it's Mattel. It's swell.")
yours, satx
Inspector43
Everything I Own Is Paid For
Thanks and thanks to kyletxria1911a1. I ask because I heard something similar from an older Marine. He had several 1911A1s (1927s made in Argentina) for sale and as I was checking them and he commented that a Marine would choose a loose one rather than a tight one.
I read an interesting story about the first Colt ARs that were sent to Nam. It seems Colt had convinced our government that the Colt AR ran so clean, a cleaning kit was not necessary.
It soon became evident that this was not the case in jungle warfare. The story related that many GIs died at the hands of the VC while trying to clean the rust out of the Colt AR chambers.
Colt later chromed the chambers and supplied cleaning kits with all of their later model ARs.
A Wilson Combat 1911 would be a terrible weapon of choice in the Middle East. The tolerances of general public firearms would not work well with the sandy conditions in the Middle East.
I was an Armorer while I was in the Army. I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany. We had monthly alerts all year round. Rain, mud, or snow my weapons had to be at the ready 24-7.
It soon became evident that this was not the case in jungle warfare. The story related that many GIs died at the hands of the VC while trying to clean the rust out of the Colt AR chambers.
Colt later chromed the chambers and supplied cleaning kits with all of their later model ARs.
A Wilson Combat 1911 would be a terrible weapon of choice in the Middle East. The tolerances of general public firearms would not work well with the sandy conditions in the Middle East.
I was an Armorer while I was in the Army. I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany. We had monthly alerts all year round. Rain, mud, or snow my weapons had to be at the ready 24-7.
Worse! As in, the other way 'round: cleaning kits weren't available, so G.I.s were told the M-16 doesn't need cleaning. Also, the sourced 5.56 ammo used propellant that was burning a lot dirtier than the rifle was specced for.
Which did have the results you posted.
Also, the three prong flash hider was used as wire cutter. Twisting the barrel off your rifle isn't a recommended course of action...
I trained with the original Colt M-16 during my Advanced Infantry Training days outside of Ft. Gordon back in 1968. We had the venerable M-14 in Germany. The average engagement distance in Europe was estimated at 600 yards or less. The M-16 legs were too short for that.
I had about 20 "veteran" 1911s in my care in Europe. Each rattled when you shook them from side to side, yet they were still accurate. Again the Army in Europe accepted 5" patterns at ten yards as standard.
My Command Sargent Major was from Waco. I was from Lubbock. We became friends. We were the only two Texans in our Headquarters Company.
He would often invite me to go with him to some of the Army competition shoots he loved to attend.
He showed me a "trick" with a 1911 that would have gotten both of us busted. Before a shoot he would come down into my arms room. He would pick out a 1911 he liked. He would then remove the slide and clamp it into my bench vice. He would then take a hand held propane torch and very carefully heat the slide. He would heat it enough to heat the steel, but not harm the bluing.
Then he would slowly squeeze the slide. This caused the slide to fit a little tighter to the frame.
I have since learned slide to frame fit is not as critical as barrel to bushing and slide lockup are.
But what can you say to a guy who has the highest NCO ranking in the Army. "Yes Sir"!
I had about 20 "veteran" 1911s in my care in Europe. Each rattled when you shook them from side to side, yet they were still accurate. Again the Army in Europe accepted 5" patterns at ten yards as standard.
My Command Sargent Major was from Waco. I was from Lubbock. We became friends. We were the only two Texans in our Headquarters Company.
He would often invite me to go with him to some of the Army competition shoots he loved to attend.
He showed me a "trick" with a 1911 that would have gotten both of us busted. Before a shoot he would come down into my arms room. He would pick out a 1911 he liked. He would then remove the slide and clamp it into my bench vice. He would then take a hand held propane torch and very carefully heat the slide. He would heat it enough to heat the steel, but not harm the bluing.
Then he would slowly squeeze the slide. This caused the slide to fit a little tighter to the frame.
I have since learned slide to frame fit is not as critical as barrel to bushing and slide lockup are.
But what can you say to a guy who has the highest NCO ranking in the Army. "Yes Sir"!
And lets hear it from the horse's mouth:
https://www.full30.com/video/d0b180478fa3b4bd8508e317f240f80e
Darqhelmet
You had one job, one.
Beat me to it. The BS the Army pulled us well documented. The M16 is an amazing rifle. Which is part of the reason it hasn’t be replaced.
Darkhelmet,
I'm FAR from a fan of the M16 & throughout my career taught others to shoot it successfully BUT always issued myself a Ithaca Model 37 Riot-Gun, with 7-shot magazine.
I believe we would have been better off with a MAIN BATTLE RIFLE in 7.62NATO.
yours, satx
I'm FAR from a fan of the M16 & throughout my career taught others to shoot it successfully BUT always issued myself a Ithaca Model 37 Riot-Gun, with 7-shot magazine.
I believe we would have been better off with a MAIN BATTLE RIFLE in 7.62NATO.
yours, satx
Inspector43
Everything I Own Is Paid For
I have an M1A in 7.62. Great weapon.
Darqhelmet
You had one job, one.
To each there own. Having had to carry one I would take the m16 over anything in 7.62x51 that isn’t belt fed. The ammo is half the weight and I can carry a lot more of it for the same penalty in oz. Finding a two legged critter that doesn’t want to be seen past 300 yards is almost impossible. If I had to take a 7.62x51 it would be an AR10.
Darqhelmet,
I've suggested several times, even when I was recalled for Desert Shield/Storm that there are ANY number of MBR that can be bought off the shelf & at attractive prices.
The AR10 is just one of those choices that without much "messing about" that we could buy as many as are needed by those units who have actual need of a MBR. Let the M4 remain in much the same mission status as the US carbine filled.
(I have NO problem with the 5.56mm for ranges out to 200m. = It's the M16/M4 that I find lacking.)
Just my OPINION, satx
Darqhelmet
You had one job, one.
Sure, you also have to train people to carry, fight with, and get hits on a rifle that is heavier, has greater recoil, and with less ammo. Don’t know how it was for DS/S but in the early 00’s with all of the war on terror funds flowing like crazy getting ammo for training was next to impossible. Like it or not budgets effect training and training matters more then the round. So cheaper is going to win because the bean counters control everything. Plus rifles don’t win wars. They help, but it’s not what wins. Though I don’t think we are looking to “win” any of these modern wars.
Darqhelmet
You had one job, one.
As for 1911’s I have one it’s old, it rattles, and says colt on the slide. Goes bang every time I squeeze the trigger.
Had a smartass RSO, wearing a Sig, asked if he could look at my Colt 1911.
Shook it, and said "yep, rattles like a bag of pebbles".
Replied, lets throw your's and mine in that clearing barrel, stir'em around a bit and see what happens.
Amen, brother.
It also won't explode in your hand (the Kaboom affect). I personally saw this happen at a local gun range a few years ago. A younger guy had a 40 cal Glock. He was bragging about shooting lead reloads and not having any problems. He was one lane over from me.
Soon I heard a strange loud noise and felt moisture hit my neck the the side of my face. The guy's Glock had exploded. The slide landed about three yards in front of the firing line. The frame had erupted slashing the guy's hand and his face. He was bleeding pretty badly. We attended to him as best we could until the ambulance showed up.
I am not bad mouthing a Glock. I carry a Gen 4 G17 with me every day. Kaboom is not something normally associated with a 1911.
I reload for everything I shoot. On occasions I have had a 45 case split about half way down the case when I seat a bullet. I shot a few out of curiosity in one of my Springfield 1911s. The pistol functioned normally, no problems. I highly recommend you do not try this at home.
It also won't explode in your hand (the Kaboom affect). I personally saw this happen at a local gun range a few years ago. A younger guy had a 40 cal Glock. He was bragging about shooting lead reloads and not having any problems. He was one lane over from me.
Soon I heard a strange loud noise and felt moisture hit my neck the the side of my face. The guy's Glock had exploded. The slide landed about three yards in front of the firing line. The frame had erupted slashing the guy's hand and his face. He was bleeding pretty badly. We attended to him as best we could until the ambulance showed up.
I am not bad mouthing a Glock. I carry a Gen 4 G17 with me every day. Kaboom is not something normally associated with a 1911.
I reload for everything I shoot. On occasions I have had a 45 case split about half way down the case when I seat a bullet. I shot a few out of curiosity in one of my Springfield 1911s. The pistol functioned normally, no problems. I highly recommend you do not try this at home.
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