Hurley's Gold

Bump stock hearing.

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    F350-6

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    I think GOA May have just earned another member regardless of the judges ruling.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I got tired of saying things like that several months ago and went ahead and put my money down. Best part has been I haven't had to unsubscribe from the countless emails, snail mail, and phone calls asking for more money.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    I joined GOA last year and haven't heard a peep from them except for a piece of mail with a welcome letter and a paper membership card. It looks like they may have actually accomplished something today. Go GOA.
     

    koddc

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    BUMP STOCK FIASCO!!!
    time is running out. sounds like the end of march is the deadline. CANNOT tell if we have to register or destroy. this whole argument has been nothing but LIES. please post more news.
     

    Younggun

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    If the laws new definition stands your bump stock will have to be either turned in or destroyed in order to comply.

    Nobody will know until a ruling is made in the court case.


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    Shady

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    turn in or destroy before the 26th if you do not want to risk a felony charge or stand up to the man and proudly display it on your front porch
     

    benenglish

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    The page referenced by the OP was published 7 Mar 2019.

    As of 19 Mar 2019, the court had not ruled so the GOA filed an emergency petition and motion in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.

    The timing here is what makes me nervous.

    Per the final rule, as published in the Federal Register:
    This rule is effective March 26, 2019.
    Is that the beginning of the day or the end of the day? If I choose to surrender my bump stock to the BATFE, must I do so on the 25th or can I actually wait and do it sometime during the day on the 26th? The ruling isn't clear, though I'm sure there are lawyers who work with this stuff who could instantly answer the question.

    I'm trying to figure out if any court will produce any ruling before the passing of the deadline makes the entire question moot. If everyone in the world agrees that the final rule is wrong and it's thrown out on the 28th, that doesn't help. No one will ever be able to bring their bump stock out in public because doing so would provide proof that they were in possession of an illegal machine gun for 24 hours.

    As of now, the GOA is asking for a hearing. They haven't gotten it yet. They have to be heard and the court has to make a favorable ruling far more quickly than these things usually happen. They're in a good jurisdiction but their time is, I fear, far too short.

    There are also two actions being pursued in DC courts, though the same judge will hear both. Those are awaiting rulings, too.

    Bottom line: Those of us who own the things need to know by noon Monday. Ruling or not, if we're to have any chance of taking action that will result in our ability to possess bump stocks in the future or preserve our standing to sue the BATFE for destruction of our property we'll have to do whatever we decide is best on Monday afternoon at the latest.

    It's looking like none of the people who have gone to court are going to get rulings in time to prevent me from visiting the ATF field office Monday.
     

    koddc

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    first of all, we DO NOT have to go to the ATF office. by their own statement, you can turn it in OR destroy it. IF this STUPID ruling actually becomes law I have the choice to destroy my slide fire stock , AT MY OWN LEISURE AT MY OWN HOME. i would not turn it in case this whole fiasco gets overturned.

    to the GOA and NRA: PLEASE demand the truth,
    #1. to say the slide fire stock is a machine gun is a BOLD FACE LIE !
    #2. to turn in private property without compensation is AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION !
    ( illegal search and seizure )

    i do not want to be criminalized for the actions of that LAS VEGAS psycho.
     

    Shady

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    Unless a injunction happens being found in possession of a functional bumpstock no matter where you are as of 3/26/19 you can be charged as a felon

    first of all, we DO NOT have to go to the ATF office. by their own statement, you can turn it in OR destroy it. IF this STUPID ruling actually becomes law I have the choice to destroy my slide fire stock , AT MY OWN LEISURE AT MY OWN HOME. i would not turn it in case this whole fiasco gets overturned.

    to the GOA and NRA: PLEASE demand the truth,
    #1. to say the slide fire stock is a machine gun is a BOLD FACE LIE !
    #2. to turn in private property without compensation is AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION !
    ( illegal search and seizure )

    i do not want to be criminalized for the actions of that LAS VEGAS psycho.
     

    benenglish

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    we DO NOT have to go to the ATF office
    Understood and agreed.

    However, if you want to get a receipt (not guaranteed but it's worth a try) so that you preserve to yourself a cause of action in the future (if the ban is overturned), then turning it in at the ATF field office is the smart way to proceed.

    I fully expect that 99.9% of owners are not thinking about it the way I am. Some will hide it away, some will throw it away, and some will destroy it. Personally, I don't care about the piece of plastic; I care about preserving my standing in future legal actions.
     

    benenglish

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    Well, the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit has issued an order. The order requires that
    ...the effective date of the Bump-Stock Rule...be administratively stayed in its application only as to the named Appellants...

    WTF is up with that? They've literally ruled that the stay only applies to the named Appellants, not to everybody. So, if you're not a member of one of the groups that was already a part of the action, you still have to turn in/destroy/whatever your bump stock by next Tuesday.

    This is the same thing that happened in the Utah case where the court granted a stay on the bump stock rule to literally just one man, the one who brought the action. I've read several pieces where the authors are taking particular note of the novelty of issuing orders so limited in scope. It's apparently just not normal for a court to order that a particular law/ruling/regulation is not to be applied to the person in the court...but it's OK to go ahead and lock up everybody else.

    Two observations:
    • I wish we had a lawyer around here who could explain to me how the courts justify issuing these orders so narrowly, and
    • I think that when the people who run Florida Carry and the Madison Society Foundation get up in the morning, they're going to be surprised to find how many thousands more members they've gotten over the weekend.
    Apparently the lawyers working on the side of the Angels recognized the injustice of limiting the order in this fashion and they immediately filed an Emergency Joint Motion to Modify Stay Order.

    Since I'm a member of both Florida Carry and the Madison Society Foundation, no matter what happens with this latest filing I don't have to trudge down to the ATF field office and turn in my bump stock on Monday.

    The legal battle continues.
     

    Shady

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    I believe Florida Carry dropped its suit due to them saying the suit they filed had to do with the acting AG not be the real AG so had no authority to do it but there is so much crap about it I may have mixed up the group.

    As far as being safe by being an affiliate. One of the big pro a2 lawyers and one of the people involved in the suit said he was not sure if being a member was enough to protect you. He posts about it on the ar15 page.

    I still dont see how anyone will know you have one unless you invite the man into your home willingly or unwillingly and its on the kitchen counter. Even them most PoPo are not going to know what it is anyways.
     

    benenglish

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    As far as being safe by being an affiliate. One of the big pro a2 lawyers and one of the people involved in the suit said he was not sure if being a member was enough to protect you. He posts about it on the ar15 page.
    If the Emergency Joint Motion succeeds then that concern will be rendered moot.
     

    leVieux

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    Maybe I just missed something. . . . .

    But,

    Even after years as a Captain in the US Army Reserves, I don't see what the big deal is with full-auto or burst-fire weapons.

    I can understand not letting nutcases or terrorists have something like twin truck-mounted .50 Cal BMG's.

    But, what is the big difference between a M16 and an AR15, anyway ?

    leVieux
     

    Shady

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    One is legal to own without jumping though the hoops to get the other.

    Both have been beat into the subconscious to cause panic in the sheeple out there but even more so when its full auto now no one can explain that to someone that is a true believer Just like you cant prove god exists to an atheist.

    The main difference is as a semi auto the AR15 is more accurate than the m16 in full auto.

    Maybe I just missed something. . . . .

    But,

    Even after years as a Captain in the US Army Reserves, I don't see what the big deal is with full-auto or burst-fire weapons.

    I can understand not letting nutcases or terrorists have something like twin truck-mounted .50 Cal BMG's.

    But, what is the big difference between a M16 and an AR15, anyway ?

    leVieux
     
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