In light of these Walmart incidents...

Frank59 · Aug 21, 2019

SA_Steve said:
Don't know what that means but I'm OK.

LoL!

txinvestigator said:
Or to protect against the others use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force

Excellent point TI

Kar98 · Aug 21, 2019

SA_Steve said:
Don't know what that means but I'm OK.

Means you don't have a TX LTC or slept through the class.

toddnjoyce · Aug 21, 2019

I think a flamethrower will solve all these problems at once in this situation.

Bithabus · Aug 21, 2019

toddnjoyce said:
I think a flamethrower will solve all these problems at once in this situation.

View attachment 182245

We should all stop posting and go see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood again!

Bithabus · Aug 21, 2019

Sublime said:
Speaking of getting sued, did you know that is doubly worse for LE? You can be charged on state and federal criminal charges and be sued civily in state court and federal court yet they respond to help the helpless anyway.

You get qualified immunity.

Sublime · Aug 21, 2019

Bithabus said:
You get qualified immunity.

Not when it is politically expedient to sell you down the river

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Bithabus · Aug 21, 2019

Sublime said:
Not when it is politically expedient to sell you down the river

Ha.

alias · Aug 21, 2019

This scenario has played out in my mind too OP, as I'm sure with many others.

Maybe I have a 'hero' mentality or I'm just a man, "an ancient race", but if I'm armed in a WM, Costco or any other public place, and I hear what sounds like a repeat of what recently happened in WM and Dayton, Ohio going down I'm going to get a huge surge of adrenaline which will quickly turn into a huge case of pissed off.
If I'm with my significant other, I'm working us to an exit to get her out, or try and hunker her down in a safe place like the pet isle behind the 40lb. bags of Purina or cat litter, and set up a kill zone. I'm now the hunter in his blind waiting for his prey.

If i'm by myself and hear people screaming and getting killed, F it, I'm going to the sound of the gunfire and try and put a stop to it. I know he's there, somewhere, he doesn't know I exist, yet. “They don't know it, but the wrath of the Lord is about to descend upon them.” Gustus McCray. My only fear is encountering a fellow friendly.

Wiliamr · Aug 21, 2019

In 1970 my pay was 275 a month to face anyone with a gun trying to kill me or my platoon members. I had a PAVN fellow shove a gun in my face and pull the trigger. it fired, I jerked he died. 50 years later I know I will still piss my pants, scream like a sophomore cheerleader and die the MF instead of me.

txinvestigator · Aug 21, 2019

alias said:
This scenario has played out in my mind too OP, as I'm sure with many others. Maybe I have a 'hero' mentality or I'm just a man, "an ancient race", but if I'm armed in a WM, Costco or any other public place, and I hear what sounds like a repeat of what recently happened in WM and Dayton, Ohio going down I'm going to get a huge surge of adrenaline which will quickly turn into a huge case of being pissed off, otherwise I wouldn't be carrying.
If I'm with my significant other, I'm working us to an exit to get her out, or try and hunker her down in a safe place like the dog food isle behind the 40lb. bags of Purina, and set up a kill zone. I'm now the hunter in his blind waiting for his prey.
If i'm by myself and hear people screaming and getting killed, F it, I'm going to the sound of the gunfire and try and put a stop to it. I know he's there, somewhere, he doesn't know I exist, yet. My only fear is encountering a fellow friendly.

I'd read that book. I love fiction

Sublime · Aug 21, 2019

txinvestigator said:
I'd read that book. I love fiction

I like to read good books too. I should self publish mine. I bet if some here read it, they would really like it. So armed civilians stopping a shooter is fiction? Tell that to Stephen Willeford.

A & P · Aug 21, 2019

alias said:
This scenario has played out in my mind too OP, as I'm sure with many others.

Maybe I have a 'hero' mentality or I'm just a man, "an ancient race", but if I'm armed in a WM, Costco or any other public place, and I hear what sounds like a repeat of what recently happened in WM and Dayton, Ohio going down I'm going to get a huge surge of adrenaline which will quickly turn into a huge case of pissed off.

A lot of people on here say you wouldn't run into the fray. And they'd be right on a lot of people. But then there's those three guys on the train in Amsterdam. While the French were hiding as usual, the Americans rushed the terrorist. Flight 93, people found out they were going to crash a plane into another building and, knowing they were going to die, still rushed the cockpit to, I guess, save others. So some people do have a superego (self-sacrifice, not 'a large ego'), some have the "I wanna be known as a hero", and some others just like to out bully the bully. Whatever the motivation, some people run toward danger, others away from it. In one of the school shootings, I think it was an athletic coach that rushed the gunman but got killed. He wasn't paid to save students lives. He was paid to teach. But the protector in him kicked in.

Now, if the Dems take your guns away, maybe you'd be foolish to run toward the AR wielding gunman in Walmart with just a handful of staplers or hockey pucks. But if you have a gun and he has a gun, even an AR, you're not just a lamb anymore. The dems want you to be a lamb.

alias · Aug 21, 2019

JakeCFH15 said:
I've asked this question on another forum and got many personal opinions on the matter. While I absolutely welcome those, I'm more-so looking for legal answers here.

Since I began researching and looking into concealed carrying last year, I've run myself through a number of mental scenarios, trying to figure out what I would do naturally to try and consciously weed out some bad decisions that I might make while in a dangerous situation. These recent Walmart incidents have got me thinking quite a bit.

One scenario I keep thinking about is this:

I'm by myself at Walmart around 6:00PM and I'm minding my own business somewhere towards the back of the store. I suddenly hear semi-auto fire coming from near the right main entrance (most Walmarts I've seen have a left and a right entrance). I feel as though I would immediately look for cover and listen to gather more information; where exactly the shots are coming from, what kind of firearm is being used, how many shooters are there, how many people are in the area of the shooter, if the shooter is shouting anything, if anyone is around me, etc. After that I know for a fact that I would subconsciously want to sneak from the rear of the store to behind the shooter (keeping cover incase he turns around), wait for a clear shot, and plant three to four rounds in the "V" as quickly and accurately as I can.

Now with all of the fluff out of the way, here's my legal question.

I have a duty to escape if I can reasonably do so. With the shooter being in the front of the store and me being near the rear, I am possibly 300+ feet away from them with tons of merchandise and aisles between us. He is no direct threat to me at the moment. If I sneak across the store and directly confront him, could a prosecutor reasonably argue that I put myself in a dangerous situation just to fire my weapon? As in I was looking for a fight? Does Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine cover a situation like this?

Others had made the point that they would seek out emergency exit doors and flee, or try and get into employee quarters and barricade themselves in. Others said they'd try and hunt him down just like I described. Just curious what yall think you'd do in that situation, but also how Texas law can be interpreted there.

(EDIT: Of course these mental exercises can't replace real training, but it's better than nothing. I plan on finding an instructor to teach more advanced CHL lessons.)

I'm not going to overthink or overchew the legal aspect of a deadly encounter and neither should you. Indecision and self doubt will get you killed as dead as a jammed gun. You don't need an educated man to advise you in common sense.
Remember, in Texas, you have the basic right to defend yourself and others with deadly force from a deadly threat.
And me, no wife and kids, just years of trigger time, yeah, I would try and hunt the b@stard out.

alias · Aug 21, 2019

oldag said:
In Texas, I would not think you are likely to have charges filed against you for trying to stop a murderer.

But anything is possible.

On the left coast or in NY, NJ, etc. - all bets are off.

In Texas, no. In Austin, who knows. Those people, including the judges, are insane.

gshayd · Aug 22, 2019

birddog said:
What was the name of that fellow that saw a suspicious backpack/package that he thought (for whatever reason) could be an IED and began moving people out of the area to safety shortly before it went off, confirming his suspicion.

Investigators questioned numerous witnesses that identified him as the one that initiated moving people away from what he referred to as a bomb/suspicious object, then LEA’s announced he was a suspect and may have staged the incident. They thought it was all too coincidental.

He went from hero to pariah and social outcast in a matter of days. Lost pretty much everything and was affected for years despite being cleared.

Hell of a price to pay.

sounds like Richard Jewel who was cleared by the Justice Department. He did win some settlements from the media NBC and CNN and went to work as a deputy sheriff.

Geezer · Aug 22, 2019

The next mass shooting that I'm involved in will be my first. My plan as of right now is to protect myself and my wife and if the opportunity presents itself to take out the bad guy(s), I'll do it. I hope that I never find myself in that situation, but if I do, who knows what will actually happen? Self preservation is at the top of my list. I don't care to be remembered as a hero, I don't even care if I'm remembered.

alias · Aug 22, 2019

Sublime said:
I like to read good books too. I should self publish mine. I bet if some here read it, they would really like it. So armed civilians stopping a shooter is fiction? Tell that to Stephen Willeford.

I'm sure in his case it would be. Remember, cops are the only ones trained and qualified to carry guns.

Mowingmaniac 24/7 · Aug 22, 2019

How many categories of us 'the armed' is there?

1. I charge into the sound of gunfire for my fellow man. I'm always ready for Valhalla.

2. Maybe, I'll charge if an opportunity is presented...maybe.

3. Nope, no chargin here, I place priority on my family and me while headin fer the hills at the sound of gunfire. I got my family and me's 6.

Did I miss any categories?

Reinz · Aug 22, 2019

Mowingmaniac 24/7 said:
How many categories of us 'the armed' is there?

1. I charge into the sound of gunfire for my fellow man. I'm always ready for Valhalla.

2. Maybe, I'll charge if an opportunity is presented...maybe.

3. Nope, no chargin here, I place priority on my family and me while headin fer the hills at the sound of gunfire. I got my family and me's 6.

Did I miss any categories?

Category #4. I make my way to the office and get on the loud speaker: Hey MoFo! Meet me in sporting goods in 5 minutes.

oldag · Aug 22, 2019

Mowingmaniac 24/7 said:
How many categories of us 'the armed' is there?

1. I charge into the sound of gunfire for my fellow man. I'm always ready for Valhalla.

2. Maybe, I'll charge if an opportunity is presented...maybe.

3. Nope, no chargin here, I place priority on my family and me while headin fer the hills at the sound of gunfire. I got my family and me's 6.

Did I miss any categories?

Those whose amazing sense of situational awareness keeps them from going to Walmart at all.

In light of these Walmart incidents...

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