The treatment of animals in agriculture, and ag gag laws.
- Thread starter Maverick44
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I agree. I was born and raised on a farm with cattle and pigs raised for market. They were not pets. But they were treated humanely.
I guess if all someone knows about pigs or cattle came from singing Old McDonald Had a Farm and buying meat at the HEB, maybe it’s easy for them to have no empathy for them.
I guess if all someone knows about pigs or cattle came from singing Old McDonald Had a Farm and buying meat at the HEB, maybe it’s easy for them to have no empathy for them.
Like everything there is a percentage of people who abuse animals. Just the other day there was a story about some assclown throwing a dog out of a moving vehicle. Looking at that story with your liberal glasses on we need to highly restrict drivers & stop taking dogs for rides.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
Well, it didn't take long for someone to throw the L word around.
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I just kinda watched the video: SLide progress bar across and eveyr time there was an animal in shot, I stopped ffwding and watched that entire section (didn't care what the talking heads were going to say)...
I'm pretty sure some of the triggers were: throwing live chicks into the reject bin, hitting the calfs and branding them? If it was the ck culling, they have to do that, at several stages of the operations, per FDA.
Quals, sort of: when I was a kid, we ran several 100 head of cattle, my grandparents ran cattle up until the early 00s, and they had decent sized chicken houses (between 30 and 100 hens at any given time), raised for eggs and tables, not for commercial ck meat sales as such. I've probably personally branded, wormed, and vaccinated calves/cattle at least 1000 times each? Maybe 3 times that much? Dunno for sure. Cousins and bunch of friends/acquaintances have hobby farms all the way up to one of the largest family owned cattle operations in Texas. Bunch of them have ck houses for family, don't know anyone with commercial ck operation.
Not seeing any of what I'd call actual abuse. In fact, most of those operations looked remarkably, impressively, clean and orderly, which is a big part of the humane treatment of livestock.
If someone wants to be mad about pen size for some livestock, I get that. I just don't know what could be done about it- in a practical sense- without literally doubling, to quadrupling the cost of that particular product. For those of us who are comfortably middle class to say we'd be willing to pay more for something is, to me, pretty shitty to the people checking us out at walmart, fixing our roads, and about a 1000 other jobs where they live pay check to pay check by necessity and economic reality, not frivolous spending.
I'm pretty sure some of the triggers were: throwing live chicks into the reject bin, hitting the calfs and branding them? If it was the ck culling, they have to do that, at several stages of the operations, per FDA.
Quals, sort of: when I was a kid, we ran several 100 head of cattle, my grandparents ran cattle up until the early 00s, and they had decent sized chicken houses (between 30 and 100 hens at any given time), raised for eggs and tables, not for commercial ck meat sales as such. I've probably personally branded, wormed, and vaccinated calves/cattle at least 1000 times each? Maybe 3 times that much? Dunno for sure. Cousins and bunch of friends/acquaintances have hobby farms all the way up to one of the largest family owned cattle operations in Texas. Bunch of them have ck houses for family, don't know anyone with commercial ck operation.
Not seeing any of what I'd call actual abuse. In fact, most of those operations looked remarkably, impressively, clean and orderly, which is a big part of the humane treatment of livestock.
If someone wants to be mad about pen size for some livestock, I get that. I just don't know what could be done about it- in a practical sense- without literally doubling, to quadrupling the cost of that particular product. For those of us who are comfortably middle class to say we'd be willing to pay more for something is, to me, pretty shitty to the people checking us out at walmart, fixing our roads, and about a 1000 other jobs where they live pay check to pay check by necessity and economic reality, not frivolous spending.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
Ok then, sound off if you consider this to be acceptable.
As I said in my first post, I don't believe ranching and farming to be "pretty". There are going to be some things that seem cruel even when they're not. I don't feel that a lot of what was shown in that video falls into that category though. I do not know if this in an issue in most farms and ranches. I never claimed or even implied that it was. It's obviously happening somewhere. I don't care what the rational is, it don't think it's acceptable to allow this kind of treatment of animals. I grew up around cattle, and chickens too. I never saw any kind of mistreatment going on with those animals.
I don't agree with most of what the animal rights activists say, but I'm damn sure not going to just ignore blatant cases of abuse just because it would mean siding with them on one singular issue. It also doesn't make you against agriculture or the business of meat to want the animals to be treated properly.
I'm curious as to why the 1st Amendment issues aren't being discussed. Sure, trespassing is a crime and SHOULD be treated as a crime, but many of these ag gag laws prevent you from recording this kind of thing from PUBLIC roads and property. Are we just not allowed to do anything that would inconvenience a big business, even if what they are doing could be unethical?
As I said in my first post, I don't believe ranching and farming to be "pretty". There are going to be some things that seem cruel even when they're not. I don't feel that a lot of what was shown in that video falls into that category though. I do not know if this in an issue in most farms and ranches. I never claimed or even implied that it was. It's obviously happening somewhere. I don't care what the rational is, it don't think it's acceptable to allow this kind of treatment of animals. I grew up around cattle, and chickens too. I never saw any kind of mistreatment going on with those animals.
I don't agree with most of what the animal rights activists say, but I'm damn sure not going to just ignore blatant cases of abuse just because it would mean siding with them on one singular issue. It also doesn't make you against agriculture or the business of meat to want the animals to be treated properly.
I'm curious as to why the 1st Amendment issues aren't being discussed. Sure, trespassing is a crime and SHOULD be treated as a crime, but many of these ag gag laws prevent you from recording this kind of thing from PUBLIC roads and property. Are we just not allowed to do anything that would inconvenience a big business, even if what they are doing could be unethical?
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Hey, whatever floats your boat. I was polite in my original response. If something in your post was misunderstood you could have pointed it out.
Instead you act childish, and that’s ok.
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I managed a small ranch with thirty head of mainly Herefords and got rather attached to them. I watched how the cows handled their calves, their acceptance of me and learned they weren't just some dumb cows. When the cows owner leasing the land moved them to another pasture near Stonewall I helped round them up and was the one they trusted as we quietly eased them into a catch pen and into trailers.
Watching them looking back at me through the trailer bars as they rumbled away, knowing what ultimately lay ahead for them, left me feeling sad and empty.
I love steak and eat it almost daily but if I could find a replacement for it this old cowboy would become a non beef eater.
Watching them looking back at me through the trailer bars as they rumbled away, knowing what ultimately lay ahead for them, left me feeling sad and empty.
I love steak and eat it almost daily but if I could find a replacement for it this old cowboy would become a non beef eater.
WT_Foxtrot
Well-Known
The PETA/meat is murder/veganism creep is a slow one, but obviously an effective one.
That one I honestly don't know. At first glance, maybe, maybe not. I watched your clip, and then I went back to the full length video to try and look at the preceding events/time, adn I just don't know for sure. If bottle man was one of my guys, I'd keep an eye on him and see how he acts overall, but that clip doesn't look any worse than calf roping when the slack runs out and the calf does a 1/2 back flip. The torque on the neck and spine at that point are way worse than the one in the attached video.
The part where the guys are tossing the calfs into the trailer is far worse, to me.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
So what you're saying is, either you're a liberal vegan PETA member, or you have to blindly and quietly go along with animal abuse?
There's no middle ground? You're either one or the other?
Wow, and here I though beliefs were more complex than that.
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That’s an idiotic response. I’m about as far from a vegan or PETA member as possible. But that doesn’t mean I should tolerate farm animals being treated cruelly.
Damn, don’t any of you tough guys have dogs or cats that you care about? Pigs, cattle, goats and sheep are no different.
Dogs and cats are pets, pigs, cattle, goats, and sheep are farm animals, not pets.
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