About Those "Bump Stocks"...

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • BillFairbanks

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 8, 2017
    1,626
    96
    Johnson County, TX
    If the bump stock ban isn’t reversed, things will get even worse during the next leftist administration.

    Trump and the NRA really betrayed the country and the Constitution with this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DK Firearms
     

    rmantoo

    Cranky old fart: Pull my finger
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 9, 2013
    814
    76
    San Angelo
    An important part this very good post didnt mention is the ATF admitted they didnt really have the authority to do what they did. But the rule should still stand.

    I just selectively cut the article and pasted here; I think the atf's lack of fiat power was in the original.

    WHY, exactly, should the rule stand?
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,761
    96
    Texas
    I just selectively cut the article and pasted here; I think the atf's lack of fiat power was in the original.

    WHY, exactly, should the rule stand?

    Nobody in America should want the rule to stand. Whether you could not care less about BumpStocks or are the most anti-gun person in the USA, you should realize when you let agencies re-interpret existing law it sets a dangerous precedent that will forever be abused, just like we saw with regulating interstate commerce.
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,925
    96
    Texas
    An important part this very good post didnt mention is the ATF admitted they didnt really have the authority to do what they did. But the rule should still stand.

    Have you got a source for that? TTAG claimed that in an article and I have been unable to find any legitimate proof that it actually occurred and who exactly said it and when.........
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,925
    96
    Texas
    "ATF’s latest court filing admits that it lacked rulemaking authority under the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act to issue a legislative rule. "

    "ATF thus now agrees with NCLA that the district court below was wrong on this point of law."

    From your link.......

    Where there is no link or reference to a resource to back that up....

    I think that is their opinion..........

    Don't misunderstand I think the ban is a crock.....But no where did the ATF actually admit they didn't have the authority...if they did, let's see it....
     
    Last edited:

    avvidclif

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 30, 2017
    5,794
    96
    Van Zandt County
    "ATF’s latest court filing admits that it lacked rulemaking authority under the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act to issue a legislative rule. "

    "ATF thus now agrees with NCLA that the district court below was wrong on this point of law."

    From your link.......

    Where there is no link or reference to a resource to back that up....

    I think that is their opinion..........

    Don't misunderstand I think the ban is a crock.....But no where did the ATF actually admit they didn't have the authority...if they did, let's see it....

    That's covered in the original post. With references.
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,925
    96
    Texas
    Please show me in the references... where ATF admitted they didn't have the authority...

    I see attorneys claiming they admit it. Where is the document where the ATF admitted this?

    I can't find one.....I want to believe these guys, but where is anything other than their opinion?

    I want to see the actual admission document.....
     

    toddnjoyce

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Sep 27, 2017
    19,308
    96
    Boerne
    Please show me in the references... where ATF admitted they didn't have the authority...
    I want to see the actual admission document.....
    Your looking for DOJ's Appellee brief, which is behind PACER. I've downloaded it and dropped it on a google drive. Specifically, the bottom of page 40 through 42 or 43.
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,925
    96
    Texas
    Read it...thank you Sir!

    Okay....they admit they cannot make law.......

    But they don't admit they didn't have the authority to ban them....

    They are claiming their authority comes by regulation of pre-existing law pertaining to machine guns.

    The claim..... BATFE admitted it didn't have the authority to ban them is not correct.....imho...........
     

    diesel1959

    por vida
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 7, 2013
    3,837
    96
    Houston & BFE
    "ATF’s latest court filing admits that it lacked rulemaking authority under the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act to issue a legislative rule. "

    "ATF thus now agrees with NCLA that the district court below was wrong on this point of law."

    From your link.......

    Where there is no link or reference to a resource to back that up....

    I think that is their opinion..........

    Don't misunderstand I think the ban is a crock.....But no where did the ATF actually admit they didn't have the authority...if they did, let's see it....
    You would have to go to the court records of all the filings in the case and read them for yourself. The filing may even be published online, but that's not a guarantee.

    EDIT: I see that you read the brief.
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,925
    96
    Texas
    and Thank You Sir,......

    I don't think they had the legal authority to do it either....and I would hope the Court agrees....

    But when I see "The ATF admitted they didn't have the authority to ban bumpstocks"

    That is factually incorrect and fake news.....imho....

    Doesn't matter which side is pushing it..........
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    24,039
    96
    Spring
    I agree with you, V-Tach.

    From the filing:
    The D.C. Circuit believed that Congress gave the Attorney General the authority to make possession of a bump stock unlawful even if it were not illegal under the plain terms of the statute. ... Yet as a general matter, “criminal laws are for courts, not for the Government, to construe.”
    If you really want to swing for the fences, you can interpret that as the ATF saying "The Circuit ruled in our favor but they were wrong to do so." The New Civil Liberties Alliance seems to be really running with this, as if the ATF were completely throwing in the towel. That's not what's happening. The ATF is, at best, admitting to the possibility that the Circuit ruling in their favor was wrong on this one point. Only.

    After making the statement above, the ATF goes on to conclude that section of their filing with:
    For the same reasons that the Rule represents the correct understanding of the statutory text, the Rule at a minimum reflects a permissible reading of the statutory terms.
    Thus, the ATF argues that this particular point, while having contestable merit, isn't determinative. They are arguing that it isn't really on-topic since their Rule isn't based on "gap-filling" (making up stuff to fill in the gaps left by incomplete statutes) but, rather, on a newly-correct understanding of the language of the NFA.

    I may not agree with any of that but it's nowhere as simple as the link in the OP made it sound.
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

    Support

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    116,376
    Messages
    2,962,130
    Members
    35,019
    Latest member
    Anbu9
    Top Bottom