Enhanced lic. to carry.

Renegade · Sep 23, 2019

Glenn B said:
Riddle me this: So if someone who owns property does not want you on their property while armed, and they are well within their rights to keep you out while armed since it is their private property, you essentially want the government granted power to disregard their rights while making your rights more important than theirs - am I getting that right?

When rights collide which should win?
For me, Constitutionally protected rights take precedence.
YMMV.

ZX9RCAM · Sep 23, 2019

Just tell them you don't want them on your property period.
Problem solved...

Bithabus · Sep 23, 2019

Glenn B said:
Riddle me this: So if someone who owns property does not want you on their property while armed, and they are well within their rights to keep you out while armed since it is their private property, you essentially want the government granted power to disregard their rights while making your rights more important than theirs - am I getting that right?

There are other ways besides 06/07. Like verbal notice. Signs make it too easy and it gets abused.

toddnjoyce · Sep 23, 2019

Glenn B said:
Riddle me this: So if someone who owns property does not want you on their property while armed, and they are well within their rights to keep you out while armed since it is their private property, you essentially want the government granted power to disregard their rights while making your rights more important than theirs - am I getting that right?

Are you open to the public for business or not?

Has the state established criminal trespass notice for open or concealed carry of any of the following:
1. Free speech
2. Religion
3. Items produced by the press

TPC 30.05 already has an enhancement to criminal trespass when carrying a deadly weapon and then carves out LTC holders from the enhanced charge.

So, an LTC holder could walk into a Walmart posted as 30.06/30.07 with a long gun and be perfectly legal until asked to leave and then refusing to so. However, if carrying a handgun, the LTC holder is prohibited from entering an establishment posted under 30.06/30.07. What sense does that make from a law perspective.

DoubleDuty · Sep 23, 2019

Well alot of laws make no sense.

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

It's ridiculous some of the laws concerning handguns vs. long guns, but statistics do show that more murders are committed with handguns over long guns.

jordanmills · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
I don't care what someone might say about disregarding 06/07 signs, if the owner or representative (manager) of the property tells you to leave and you don't, it could be considered criminal trespass. That's how, although I believe it's wrong, an owner or manager can tell LEO customers to leave.

Technically, 30.05 has an exception for someone who has an LTC and was asked to leave because they were carrying a gun under that authority. In practice... well I'm not going to practice testing it.

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

jordanmills said:
Technically, 30.05 has an exception for someone who has an LTC and was asked to leave because they were carrying a gun under that authority. In practice... well I'm not going to practice testing it.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-30-05.html

jordanmills · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-30-05.html

Yep, that's it. This is the actual site: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

jordanmills said:
Yep, that's it. This is the actual site: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

What exception though?

jordanmills · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
What exception though?

30.05(f)

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

(2) the person was carrying:

(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and

(B) a handgun:

(i) in a concealed manner; or

(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

Bithabus · Sep 23, 2019

satx78247 · Sep 23, 2019

Hoji said:
Yep. I actually expect people who carry a gun for a living to train as much as I do.

Hoji,

When I was stationed in "Charm City", i.e., Baltimore, MD with USACIDC, I found out that the MAJORITY of "veteran" BPD & BCSD officers were NOT actually qualifying with their assigned duty weapon. = Instead "veteran police officers" were granted "constructive credit" for firing their handguns W/O actually qualifying.
(The 2 local agencies said that the departments couldn't afford the ammo and/or range time.)

One senior Deputy Sheriff told me that he had NOT actually qualified in over a DECADE with his pistol, as it was "assumed that he could shoot adequately", as he was a "white shirt" (CPT).

yours, satx

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

jordanmills said:
30.05(f)

But isn't that in conjunction with performing a duty?

satx78247 · Sep 23, 2019

Kar98 said:
Here's an idea for compromise: they want universal background checks. Alright then! A federal LTC that let's me carry guns in every state and into every building and lets me buy guns in every state in person and online, shipped to me, with the same background check etc. as required for a TX LTC. This FLTC serves as proof of having passed and continue to pass said background check.

Kar98,

I'd add that EVERY person, who qualifies for a FLTC, should be granted a SPECIAL DEPUTY US MARSHAL'S CREDS & BADGE, IF they wish to be "sworn-in", as a reserve SDUSM.
(I was once a SDUSM & found that deputation HANDY when traveling into Northern states & some other cities/jurisdictions. = Not even NYC could "hassle me".)

Additionally, over time, such a program would benefit the USA, in that we would have a good-sized body of qualified persons, who could be called to help deal with manmade/natural emergency situations, as US military reserve personnel can be "called up" for emergency service.

yours, satx

Bithabus · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
But isn't that in conjunction with performing a duty?

Where does it say that?

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

Bithabus said:
Where does it say that?

Under 411.

Bithabus · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
Under 411.

This is the defense to 30.05:

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

(2) the person was carrying:

(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and

(B) a handgun:

(i) in a concealed manner; or

(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

easy rider · Sep 23, 2019

I'm trying to understand this more completely and trying to see how there is an exception to criminal trespass for LTC holders. It's my understanding of the law that if you were asked to leave and do not comply that is criminal trespass. Now there are exceptions to many on performance of duty, but going to a store to buy something or a restaurant for dinner is not a duty.

Bithabus · Sep 23, 2019

easy rider said:
I'm trying to understand this more completely and trying to see how there is an exception to criminal trespass for LTC holders. It's my understanding of the law that if you were asked to leave and do not comply that is criminal trespass. Now there are exceptions to many on performance of duty, but going to a store to buy something or a restaurant for dinner is not a duty.

There is a defense to prosecution for LTC holders if someone forbids handguns on his property and that is the basis of the trespass. For example: if you put up a sign that says "no guns allowed" on your house and I carry past it I would be entitled to a defense to a trespassing charge because I have an LTC. That's why only precise 30.06 or .07 signs apply to LTC holders.

However, if in the above scenario you ordered me to leave directly I would have to comply and would have no defense if I did not comply. IMO we should repeal 30.06 and 30.07 and go this way.

Enhanced lic. to carry.

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