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Boy, 4, dies after father's gun discharged as they play-wrestled

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    New Member
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    Jul 26, 2013
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    I was on a court case about 30 years ago and a man was suing Ruger because his father had dropped his revolver it went off and shot him in the head and killed him. I was ultimately not chosen for the jury because I knew the plaintive. I never did find the outcome of the case. I assume the weapon was manufactured before transfer bars became the norm.
    I knew absolutely nothing about handguns at that time (not that I know much now).
    I have talked to his the son’s widow and daughter recently, but have never brought up the subject.
    DK Firearms
     

    jrbfishn

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    I'm trying to figure out how everything aligned for them to both be shot in the head from the same shot. Something ain't right.

    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     

    F350-6

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    Every story I've read talks about a glock being stuffed in his pants in the small of the back. Not one yet has mentioned a holster.

    Wrestle on a bed, I can see the glock falling out. I read where they sent it off for testing to see if it had malfunctioned. I'm guessing the same kind of malfunctions all those NYPD glocks kept having.

    Playing around on a bed, I can see someone being barefoot. Pressing your foot into the bed for leverage would be reasonable. If a foot stepped on the pistol, and a toe got into the trigger guard, a discharge isn't unreasonable.

    Hitting both in the head sounds like a one in a million thing though. And if the above scenario is what played out, there would be no reason to send the pistol off for testing.

    Sounds more like the same NYPD glock problems, or the dancing FBI agent problem is what happened instead of the gun just went off by itself.
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Aug 22, 2016
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    Sounds to me like a "new guy" who reads to many gun message boards and believes every thing he reads from the experts. His finger is his safety, if there isn't one in the chamber it may as well be empty or a brick, Glock Perfection, 24 hours 360 degree awareness guy, 100% of all home invasions happen in the home and my gun is always right here in the back of my pants under a shirt and stuck in my BVDs (even when me and the 5 year old are gett'n in to some WWE action like an FBI agent break dancing.)

    He should have taken an NRA beginer pistol class but he was probably busy ripping them on the internet.
     

    Glenn B

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    Sep 5, 2019
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    That gun has a firing pin safety. They cant go off unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear pushing the plunger in the slide up allowing the firing pin freedom to move forward.

    I dont know of a carry gun made in the last 40 years without one. Maybe the very first model 39s if dropped directly muzzle down with a weak firing pin spring? If I'm wrong someone will correct me quickly.

    Beretta Model 21, is there a firing pin safety? I think not. In addition, as I recall, it has an inertia firing pin and thus probably can go off if dropped. Any similar pistol utilizing an inertia firing pin would be subject to the same possibility. There are probably several pistols that do not have a firing pin safety and are currently manufactured and that were first manufactured within the last 40 years and are currently produced.

    Then there is the chance the pistol was faulty, I believe someone mentioned the problematic Sig, of some recent infamy, because of it being able to go off when dropped but remember any pistol can be faulty or bubba'd to being dangerous. Of course, this was reportedly a Glock. So, the kid might have inadvertently grabbed the pistol and fired it as they tussled about, or the dad could have realized it had fallen out and tried to catch it and then fired it as he grabbed it. Trying to catch a pistol you just dropped is a potentially very bad move every time and I have seen people try to do it several times over the years - usually the gun winds up pointing where it should not be pointed.

    Whatever the reason the pistol went off, it is truly a sad day when a young child is killed because of it. RIP. As for the father, if he loved his child at all, he will probably never be at peace again.
     
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    Glenn B

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    And if the above scenario is what played out, there would be no reason to send the pistol off for testing.
    Sending the pistol for testing eliminates it or implicates it as the cause or partial cause of the discharge. It would be negligent of investigators not to do so and if charges are filed against the father, they would need to have it tested to bolster their case if indeed it was not faulty. Of course, if found faulty, it might work toward the father's defense. Either way, it would be doing justice to have it tested.
     

    candcallen

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    Jul 23, 2011
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    Little Elm
    Many of the 22 cal pistols have that system. Light pins and springs make the drop fire danger minimal related to weak springs. Like early 39s before firing pin safetys. The drop would have to be directly onto the muzzle.

    I guess I should have said designed after the rise of lawyers advertising on TVs.
     

    F350-6

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    Sending the pistol for testing eliminates it or implicates it as the cause or partial cause of the discharge. It would be negligent of investigators not to do so and if charges are filed against the father, they would need to have it tested to bolster their case if indeed it was not faulty. Of course, if found faulty, it might work toward the father's defense. Either way, it would be doing justice to have it tested.

    I'm guessing if the truth were told, there would be no reason to have the pistol tested. Kinda like the FBI agent who was dancing and said his pistol discharged when it fell out of his holster. In that case, video evidence showed the pistol discharged when the agent tried to pick up the weapon, not when it was dropped. No reason to test the FBI pistol as there was nothing to rule out once the truth was known.
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Jul 23, 2011
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    Little Elm
    The pistol will always be tested. It's part of the evidence and proves facts. Just like with the sigs recently, things can happen though usually humans at some point cause them too.

    Example...
    I was involved in the investigation of an officer who said his gun went off when he removed it from his holster. It was a revolver and there was evidence that a heavily checked spur hammer had caught on the elastic band of his jacket making part of the story remotely possible. Evidence being thread on the hammer and pulled spots in the elastic.

    Bullshit right? Guns dont go off like that and not unless the trigger is held to the rear right? Not exactly. This was a time where he was truthful. In fact he was lucky not to get killed.

    The crime lab determined the armorer did a bubbafied trigger job on the gun for a female officer by phucking with springs by cutting them and messing with it so that she knew not to depend on single action. THe gun was in the armory for some reason on her days off, the armored was absent and the officer needed a gun issued for a duration during a shift he didnt expect to work. He was doing refresher training and called to do a perimeter patrol. He got a cheap pancake holster from another officer and was issued/grabbed this revolver not knowing it had been messed with.

    After 10 hours sitting in a truck he removed the gun from the holster to set on the seat as was common for comfort at that time. The gun getting caught on the jacket was enough to cock it. He felt it pull but didnt realise it had fully cocked the gun. Setting it on the seat was enough of an impact to make it go off and pressure from the seat or side of the finger was enough to hold the trigger in place long enough to fire. All because it had been alterd. I was able to pull the trigger a couple times after we got it back, it was probably not even drop safe if it fell just right. It was so light it was scary and felt broken and loose. If the initial investigator had tried it instead of collecting it and delivering it to the armorer for testing the whole mess would have ended there.

    Anyways
    The officer was called a liar, obviously everyone knew his story couldnt be true and nearly fired for playing around till he insisted he wasnt lying. The armor, for obvious reasons, said the gun was working properly. Officer said send it to the crime lab and if it's working properly I'll resign and forgo all the termination fighting bs. This was quick enough the armorer didnt have enough time to put new parts in, although I use the term armorer loosely and doubt he had the skill to do that. Trigger jobs on duty guns are verboten to begin with but this guy was obviously a hack and went beyond his skill and allowed duties.

    Well the armorer was fired within 24 hours of the gun getting to the crime lab. Both cause he phucked with it and lied about it. The officer got 8 hours off for removing a gun from his holster unnecessarily.

    Point being the gun will always be forensically tested disassembled and checked as it's the key to proving or disproving a claim. Further I would expect at least one independent lab and expert to extensively test the story if the dad is arrested or charges of untruthfulness come out and he intended to stand by his story.

    ETD. I shortened the story. Really I did.
     
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    Maverick44

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    I was in a violent roll over at 65 MPH and ended up hanging upside down. The gun didn't move even a little in it's holster. It definitely didn't go off.

    A well designed and maintained gun in a decent holster (in this case, Alien Gear) should not come out of it's holster unless pulled intentionally, and it shouldn't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    emanon

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    Jan 6, 2020
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    I was in a violent roll over at 65 MPH and ended up hanging upside down. The gun didn't move even a little in it's holster. It definitely didn't go off.

    A well designed and maintained gun in a decent holster (in this case, Alien Gear) should not come out of it's holster unless pulled intentionally, and it shouldn't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    I'm definitely going to check out these holsters!
     

    CAVOK

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    Dec 1, 2018
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    Earth
    This is one of my biggest fears. Therefore, I don't keep a round loaded in the chamber. I do have the magazine loaded. I wonder which type of gun this was?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-boy-4-dies-after-father-s-gun-discharged-they-n1122841

    Any current combat handgun platform is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber. You should be confident in your trigger finger discipline during your draw and all gun handling. Every Law Enforcement Agency carries that way, using a good holster (avoid Serpa, period), so there is ample legal precedent if you are concerned about that aspect.

    When you read of a dropped Glock going off, it is likely a cover story to deflect liability because someone inadvertently pulled the trigger.
     
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    mongoose

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    I regularly hang upside down on my inversion table with a weapon in either a Crossbreed or RDR holster and have never experienced any dislodging of my weapon.
     
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    tonelar

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    there’s more to this story than they’re telling

    emanon, carry with a round in the chamber. train a lot, definitely.
     
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