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  • TheMailMan

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    My grandson just got a Cyberpower, very nice but came with no manuals and one single sheet for instruction. No dvd. Took forever to have service department answer questions and never did get a case manual so you are on your own doing any work in the case. They also substitute stuff from what you order. Keyboard does all kinds of things but no manuals. Mouse no manuals. I am previous Cyberpower owner and they provided good manuals. No more.
    I just bought a Dell with 1 tb SSD and 2 tb hard drive. Manuals galore (pdf) and all the usual Dell repair stuff if you need. Blazingly fast. Dell provides updates like mad for drivers, etc. They also give a veteran discount. Very happy with my Dell. I7-9700, 3 ghz, 16gb ram. NVidea GeForce rtx 2060 with 6gb ram. Dell xps8930. Bought Dell monitor too. So far very happy

    Computers haven't come with manuals in over two decades.

    What you're looking for is already on the hard drive. You could print it if you want.
     

    CyberWolf

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    Little late to the thread, but have another option worth considering:

    https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/think-...es-tiny-/ThinkStation-P330-Tiny/p/33TS3TP330X

    Screenshot_20200331-163959_Chrome.jpg


    You can pick up a 2nd M.2 NVME 1TB drive (much faster than standard SSD) cheaper from Microcenter, which all together gets you a ton of horsepower & storage, full compatibility with Windows/Linux, Graphics/CAD software, etc., super portable, and at/under budget...

    They also have a discount program that'll drop the price a bit:

    https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/landingpage/military/


    ETA: this also gives you a "desktop" small enough to rig up a mobile mount, just need something for display

    ETA#2: replaced screenshot, had 1st one had lower-end graphics card...
     

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    rotor

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    Computers haven't come with manuals in over two decades.

    What you're looking for is already on the hard drive. You could print it if you want.
    Nope, was not on Cyberpower drive and multiple requests in Cyberpower forum about instructions so I am not the only one asking. How do you know manuals are on the drive? No info on case received anywhere and was not the case ordered, no manuals of any kind on their website. I checked Dell and downloaded all of the manuals before ordering and they were excellent as usual. Need to replace something, all info is there.
    I have built many computers and servers and was upset with how little provided by Cyberpower. The keyboard alone has a program to control the lighting of the keys but no instruction on how to use the program. It is a very complex little program too. No help from Cyberpower customer service. Same for the mouse. Does it work well, yes and my grandson loves doing gaming on it, after I configured everything. Damn lights give me a headache but I am not a kid. The only instructions on the case were to remove 4 screws and remove the insulation.
    I have bought Cyberpower before and were good computers, lasted many years with only replacement of fans. I still have the manuals for those old computers as well as the box and files that the motherboard came in, all of the drivers, etc. Not any more.
    Dell has been superb for me. Lenovo above looks good too. Dell gives a veteran discount if you ask and are eligible. It is not hard to find a fast well designed computer nowadays. If you go Cyberpower pick out what you want and see if you can find manuals for the parts that you order before hitting the buy button.
     

    newbirdhunter

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    as a former photographer, I can tell you Photoshop is a memory hog and a half. Use an SSD drive but learn about using a separate disk as a "scratch disk" if you are not. I agree with others who have recommended a gaming machine as they usually have better video cards with its own memory and more RAM memory. I run Mac and stopped programming in Windows many moons ago so not sure what improvements have been made but if Windows can now use the full amount of memory your machine has (I believe some time back no matter how much memory you had Windows maxed out at 16 or 32MB), get as much as you can. With an SSD, a good video card, and plenty of memory you should be good to go.
     

    Younggun

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    as a former photographer, I can tell you Photoshop is a memory hog and a half. Use an SSD drive but learn about using a separate disk as a "scratch disk" if you are not. I agree with others who have recommended a gaming machine as they usually have better video cards with its own memory and more RAM memory. I run Mac and stopped programming in Windows many moons ago so not sure what improvements have been made but if Windows can now use the full amount of memory your machine has (I believe some time back no matter how much memory you had Windows maxed out at 16 or 32MB), get as much as you can. With an SSD, a good video card, and plenty of memory you should be good to go.

    Why is it called a “scratch disk”?

    The models I’m looking at now include 1TB SSD and 32gb ram. One as a Ryzen 9 CPU and RX 5700 XT GPU, the other has a Ryzen 7 3800X CPU and Nvidia RTX 2070 Super GPU.

    Figured the 1TB SSD would handle the storage requirements and negate the need for a second HDD with projects moved to external HDs once complete or just offload old projects every now and then.




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    CyberWolf

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    Why is it called a “scratch disk”?

    The models I’m looking at now include 1TB SSD and 32gb ram. One as a Ryzen 9 CPU and RX 5700 XT GPU, the other has a Ryzen 7 3800X CPU and Nvidia RTX 2070 Super GPU.

    Figured the 1TB SSD would handle the storage requirements and negate the need for a second HDD with projects moved to external HDs once complete or just offload old projects every now and then.




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    The main reasons you want 2 drives is to seperate "processing" IO (e.g. Storage IO directly associated with active processing tasks) from your Operating System, so that one doesn't 'bog down' the other. Also, so you don't accidentally run out of space on the system/OS drive and cause your machine to puke.

    Also, keep in mind that Storage IO is often the main performance bottleneck (at least with most modern computing platforms & common non-gaming tasks), and NVME Flash is by far the fastest currently available - way faster than SSD, and so much faster than HDD that it's not even worth the comparison...
     

    Younggun

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    ****, ya lost me at NVME flash.

    Got the SSD vs HDD part though.

    They also say they have “NVME M.2” SSD interface...


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    CyberWolf

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    Younggun

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    CyberWolf

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    Thanks. So NVME is a form of SSD, correct?


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    Basically, yes - just with a different interface and vastly higher performance (obviously there's more differences, but the short answer is still 'yes').
     
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    mitchntx

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    I retired from a corporate video/multi-media gig a couple years ago.

    Went through NewTek Toaster, Avid, Lightwave, Apple (I've blotted that debacle from my memory) ... for the last 10 years, Premeire Pro component of Adobe's Creative suite of products was the choice.

    It takes a lot of disk space to store and boot the stand-alone program. It's all cloud based and subscription based nowadays.

    SSDs are electronic and HDDs have mechanical, moving parts.

    CD/DVD storage? don't waste your time and money. thumb drives have gotten crazy cheap, R/W much quicker, will work on most any USB capable device and are reusable.

    The raw video and the edited video require BIG-abytes of space to store. Never erase anything ... like a left-over bolt after a motor overhaul, you will need that bolt someday.

    Scratch disk is temporary storage spot used to compile video, audio and transition animations while playing back and rendering the final clip. The bigger the clips, the more BIG-abytes you'll need.


    Machine specs ...

    You must define what your end results are and client deadlines.

    If you are an on-line, live news feed cutter, then you need blazing speed and crazy reliability.
    If you are posting a "look at my dog" videos on facebook, then speed isn't as critical.

    Premiere will run on most any Win10 platform and with moderate amounts of RAM, HD space notwithstanding. Just know that Premiere isn't very good at releasing memory after use. So machines with lesser RAM needs to have Premiere rebooted on occasion and a cold start to the machine occasionally as well. You'll begin to see tell-tale signs of when ... buffering, slow rendering, reduced resolution ...

    I'm running Adobe's Creative Suite 6 on a Dell laptop M6800. No problems at all. It's slow ... but I'm old and time just doesn't have the same meaning it did a few years ago.

    For a hobbyist, look into Adobe's "light" version of products. Photoshop Elements and Premiere elements and solid performers and at very reasonable prices. They don't have all the bells and whistles the bigger brothers have, they cover the most common needs.

    HTH from an end user of these products for 30 years.
     

    Brains

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    CPU: AMD over Intel. BUT. This flip flops every few years. Ryzen 7 or 9 are beasts. 3???X are top tier.
    MB: Chipset is important, for the price differential get an X570 board for AMD.
    RAM: DDR4. Don't buy <3000MHz. 3600MHz is the sweet spot for $ vs. ease vs. performance with Ryzen, higher and you'll need to get into turning knobs you won't really understand.
    Disk: SSD, do not buy unless NVMe (look for it to be PCIe 4.0 if you get an X570).
    Video: Just match against the supported list for Photoshop or Premiere or whatever software you're gonna run. Plan on a couple hundred bucks here. If you get an AMD and get X570 you get PCIe 4.0, might as well get a matching PCIe 4.0 video card and take advantage of the higher bandwidth although you probably don't need it.

    Q: Why would I want a separate scratch disk over a single big fast SSD?
    A: What will fill a swimming pool faster, one fire hose or two? It's about how much data you can move at once, not just how fast. Adobe uses your main drive to read and write the data of file you're working on. It attempts to keep all of that data in RAM, but if it won't fit? It will then start working with chunks of data. It'll read them as needed from the main file, from the main disk. It'll read and write the changes you're making to the scratch disk at the same time it's getting the data from the main disk. With a single drive, you're doing a lot of back and forth.
     

    yellowg

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    Intel is still at least 9-16 months away from releasing new architecture to challenge the current generation of AMD Ryzen chips. It’s another way of saying current gen Intel chips are slower and less efficient than AMD chips.

    I would also agree to go with AMD at this current moment. And to echo what others have said, it’s better to build your own. Pre-built computers can cost more, sacrifice component quality due to the brand name, make you choose between good and mediocre components and have tons of preinstalled bloat software that will slow down Windows.
     

    Younggun

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    The last few posts have been extremely helpful. Really appreciate the time ya’ll have given to break this crap down in to normie language, lol.


    I’ll do some shopping around in component prices and try to decide if I feel up to the task of building such a puzzle box myself. I’d just hate to lose any magic smoke.

    One more question: Would the builds described above require any extra cooling considerations? I know most just use fans but I’ve also seen posts here and other places where water cooling is used. It was also part of a prebuilt Tower I looked at but not sure if it was necessary or just to make it sound better.


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    Younggun

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    CPU: AMD over Intel. BUT. This flip flops every few years. Ryzen 7 or 9 are beasts. 3???X are top tier.
    MB: Chipset is important, for the price differential get an X570 board for AMD.
    RAM: DDR4. Don't buy <3000MHz. 3600MHz is the sweet spot for $ vs. ease vs. performance with Ryzen, higher and you'll need to get into turning knobs you won't really understand.
    Disk: SSD, do not buy unless NVMe (look for it to be PCIe 4.0 if you get an X570).
    Video: Just match against the supported list for Photoshop or Premiere or whatever software you're gonna run. Plan on a couple hundred bucks here. If you get an AMD and get X570 you get PCIe 4.0, might as well get a matching PCIe 4.0 video card and take advantage of the higher bandwidth although you probably don't need it.

    Q: Why would I want a separate scratch disk over a single big fast SSD?
    A: What will fill a swimming pool faster, one fire hose or two? It's about how much data you can move at once, not just how fast. Adobe uses your main drive to read and write the data of file you're working on. It attempts to keep all of that data in RAM, but if it won't fit? It will then start working with chunks of data. It'll read them as needed from the main file, from the main disk. It'll read and write the changes you're making to the scratch disk at the same time it's getting the data from the main disk. With a single drive, you're doing a lot of back and forth.

    This post made things sound easy, and I had a starting point



    Then I checked amazon...there’s about 5 different X570 boards, I don’t know how many RX5700 XT GPUs.

    Then I looked at ram...there’s different numbers of pins, different sizes, some seem to have lights and shit.


    Picked some random stuff, a case, and 750W power supply (too much? Idk) and it came out right at the same as one I looked at on Microcenter with similar options here: https://www.microcenter.com/product/613824/powerspec-g464-gaming-computer

    The SSD might be on the cheap end though, IDK. It said it’s an intel P660. Looked less “fancy”.




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    CyberWolf

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    The last few posts have been extremely helpful. Really appreciate the time ya’ll have given to break this crap down in to normie language, lol.


    I’ll do some shopping around in component prices and try to decide if I feel up to the task of building such a puzzle box myself. I’d just hate to lose any magic smoke.

    One more question: Would the builds described above require any extra cooling considerations? I know most just use fans but I’ve also seen posts here and other places where water cooling is used. It was also part of a prebuilt Tower I looked at but not sure if it was necessary or just to make it sound better.


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    Cooling can be an issue, particularly for a self-build (not something you usually need to worry about on a 'branded' machine; just don't block the vents);

    However, I personally would stay as far away from liquid-cooling systems as possible.

    Sure, they look cool, and depending on what you're running (e.g. special/overclocked builds, etc.), may provide some benefit. That said, they're a pain in the ass and require periodic changing of coolant (maybe they have better filters nowadays, but no interest in chancing it).

    An unpleasant example - I smoked a $13k liquid cooled 'home server' a while back due to forgetting to change the coolant, which corroded one of the processor heatsinks and caused it to leak all over the internals. Last thing it saw was a pink screen of death, and then it was no more...

    Been a while since I used AMD, so can't provide anything close to recent feedback on those, but have heard good things (don't play any video games, but do use Solidworks & Adobe CS programs).

    Also, one other thought about build vs. buy - and that is there's more than just base price to be considered....

    I used to build all of my own personal machines, but anymore I find it easier to just buy something branded by a major mfg. - as least insofar as 'working' PCs go (obviously does not apply to machines used for specialized tasks, headless, etc.);

    -Not because it's cheaper (it may or may not be, depending on where/how purchased), but because with the custom-build you can find yourself in a time-sink if something doesn't work right or there's a driver compatibility issue. To each his own, but just not worth the effort anymore for me...
     

    Younggun

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    With the info I've gotten here I've put together this list of parts.

    https://www.microcenter.com/site/co...spx?load=b5f86b31-f8ba-4604-afc3-931b3a23df8b

    Would appreciate any advice on changes I might want to make. Also, it seems like I would need to get some sort of thingamajig to get the "front panel USB" ports to the front panel. Also having trouble knowing what exactly is on the front panel of the case. I chose the one shown mostly because it wasn't too expensive and had external slots so I could put in a CD drive...cause I still like having one in the computer and with my internet connection downloading programs SUCKS.

    I know there was a comment above about liquid coolers and changing coolant. As best I can tell the one shown is a sealed system with no filling/changing of coolant. Only put it in since some reviews show noticeably better performance from the CPU under heavy workload with a little extra help beyond the stock fan. Probably not an issue for me...but who knows what I might want it to do in a few years.
     

    Brains

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    Solid build, likely overkill. There are a couple tweaks I would personally make, but are not at all necessary:
    1. Upgrade from 3200MHz ram to 3600MHz. ~25 bucks?
    2. Swap out the Crucial P1 for something like an Inland Performance 1TB NVMe (PCI 4.0 doubles the bandwidth)

    Stick with air cooling BTW, unless you plan on overclocking, which really isn't going to be very beneficial for your use case. You didn't spec a pair of SSD's, although your selected board does support two. You can always add the second later and appoint it as a scratch disk should you feel the desire.
     

    Younggun

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    Solid build, likely overkill. There are a couple tweaks I would personally make, but are not at all necessary:
    1. Upgrade from 3200MHz ram to 3600MHz. ~25 bucks?
    2. Swap out the Crucial P1 for something like an Inland Performance 1TB NVMe (PCI 4.0 doubles the bandwidth)

    Stick with air cooling BTW, unless you plan on overclocking, which really isn't going to be very beneficial for your use case. You didn't spec a pair of SSD's, although your selected board does support two. You can always add the second later and appoint it as a scratch disk should you feel the desire.

    Yeah, I plan to add it later, but may end up including it off the bat when the time comes.

    I’ll remove the liquid cooling. Guess being told to stay away twice is enough to convince me.

    Will look at the other SSD and ram cards. Seems like the prices jumped a lot to get to 3600 for the ram, but I’d been staring at the screen for a while and may have overlooked something or read wrong.


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