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  • candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Little Elm
    I didn’t read the above thread but my response kind of falls in line with the title and I just need to put this out there.

    In about a month I’m set to graduate from the police academy. We are taught and have been taught to handle the immediate threat, then render aid. We aren’t taught to hold someone down via knee on neck. That’s never something we are taught to do. It’s okay to put a knee on a shoulder of the person is actively resisting, or a knee on the lower back. No department ever will condone this behavior. This man, George Floyd was murdered plain and simple. The officer who knelt on his neck was not a police officer, he was a thug in uniform. Police officers are there to help, handle difficult situations and stand in the way of danger to the general public. None of what I listed occurred in this situation. It’s saddening, maddening and tragic. I didn’t go into this profession to incite violence and enact unchecked violence on the very people I will swear to serve. The police officers who do incite and enact unchecked violence on the people they swore to serve, behind the badge are uniformed thugs.
    It seems as if once the police gain a step closer into bringing some trust between them and the public, something like this occurs. It’s unfortunate, infuriating, and makes me sick. The thing about this is that it could’ve all been avoided in the first place. It’s horrible.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    A quick word of advice. Dont be afraid to tell fellow officers "that's enough its over" or the like. Taking care of each other includes not letting happen what you saw on video.

    Adrenalin and stress will blunt coming down and clearing your head after an incident just like it will your reaction time and decision making during an incident. The officers who watched this incident will be treated like any felony murder subject who may not have done the killing but were involved in the crime.

    Regarding the incident,
    I dont think anyone in that profession will tell you what happened was ok. It's not.

    It was IMHO at least 2nd degree murder.

    All the way back to the late 80s, a knee in the upper back was ok till you cuff someone. A knee on the head in extreme circumstances but you had to keep your weight loaded on the leg on the ground and light on the head. Again only till cuffed. Then hands on the shoulders if needed or hobble if needed. As a use of force instructor I taught no choke holds. You could control the head during a struggle but there were no legal choke holds i.e. intended to subdue thru unconsciousness. As far as I know most police and corrections departments are the same now days.

    After I quit working they started teaching the rescue position, i.e. sitting them up once cuffed and not struggling. It helps the individual breathe and ensures no one stayes on their torso. This is because even though the chest is strong you still compress the heart and limit breathing and can kill someone.

    Again this was murder.

    Another question is why go thru all this over the crime alleged and the fact he wouldn't have gone to jail because of the pandemic? Also the guy clearly wasn't resisting after cuffed or before. If reports are true that they knew each other thru working at a bar I'm guessing the victim said something that pissed off the officer. If the officer cant handle such things without losing perspective and control he should not be a police officer.

    Rioters and looters are criminal trash. No different than police officers who over step their authority. The mayor is a disgrace as is the police chief but the prize for biggest phuktard of the day goes to the official, DA I believe, who insinuated, or at best poorly chose his words to make it sound like, there was other evidence that would keep him from charging the officer and that it could clear the officer. His one sentence served to light the match on the second night of riots.

    People get the government they deserve. Elect a pussy guilt ridden mayor and this is what happens. Same shit as happened in Baltimore where they retreat and allow the professional agitators along with local thugs and criminals to destroy the neighborhood. Then the people that actually live there won't have stores and resources for every day needs and downward it spirals into a shit hole.

    The protesters are correct, if that happened to a police officer the perp would be dead or immediately arrested. The incident was horrific. Unacceptable. Just as the riots and looting it.
     

    smittyb

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    I don't get the "cops should hang" comments.

    this is still America where you are innocent until proven guilty or do you really want to go the other route where someone thinks you are guilty so you go to jail or hang.
    You haven’t watched the 7 min video, have you?
     

    popsgarland

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    From what I've read, the killer, has had several, 10 I believe, complaints filed against him over the past few years and no action was taken on any of them, well, maybe a slap on the hand or a slap on the back with a well done.

    Talking with my son-in-law, who is a LT with a local PD, one complaint is 1 to many. But, if this had been one of his men, they would have fired and arrested the same day.

    Every PD has some bad apples but this is way out of line.
     

    Whistler

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    So Joy-Ann M. Lomena-Reid thinks a peaceful protest is the same as a riot and that race is the sole reason for the different reactions from LEO. Interesting how Leftie's minds work. Even Charlottesville (and I hate neo-Nazis) they had a permit to conduct a (mostly) peaceful protest and were violently attacked by 'social justice warriors', in their mind the ends justify the means.

    Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo assert only whites are at fault and only whites can be racist "it is not incumbent on black people to stop racism" Eddie Glaude claims looting and destruction is "understandably lashing out" while the Police take no action at all.

    So long as the political left, the media and others who profit from fear mongering and violence continued unchecked there can be no resolution. The vast majority of Americans have no racist agenda whatsoever, stop giving a voice to antagonists.

    Arrest/punish the thugs masquerading as police and just like mass shooters blame the perpetrator, not some faceless group agitators claim at fault or worse, imaginary systemic behavior. Make the distinction that a bad guy who happened to be Caucasian is at fault, he's a bad guy, they come in all colors.
     

    Shady

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    You haven’t watched the 7 min video, have you?


    I have watched the vid and its still America where you are innocent till proven guilty.

    EVERY one has the right to a day in court.

    Oh I know lets arrest them and try them without all the evidence so they walk. Very good idea.


    As far as complaints

    Its a crooks job to complain against the arresting officer just because they can. So most past complaints the officers are found for lack of better term not guilty.

    What happened is horrible and from what we have seen it looks cut and paste throw the jerk in jail for life. But we are not privileged to all the evidence yet.
     

    candcallen

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    Little Elm
    I have watched the vid and its still America where you are innocent till proven guilty.

    EVERY one has the right to a day in court.

    Oh I know lets arrest them and try them without all the evidence so they walk. Very good idea.
    The standard for arrest isnt innocent unless proven guilty. There was probable cause for an arrest at least as soon as the video was seen and certainly as soon as their reports were found to be bald faced lies. The two together are probable cause for arrest for more than just murder.

    There is no excuse for not arresting them at this point.

    And technicalities deriving from an arrest that result in a charge being voided or case tossed a extremely few, rarely occure, and completely known by all academy grads.

    No excuse at this point for not arresting these thugs.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I’ve followed this on the periphery, and want to take a step back for a moment. The actions of one LEO resulted in the death of a citizen, and the actions of the others present aided and/or abetted that death.

    That citizen was accused of a crime, but not yet adjudicated.

    In response, riots and looting have ensued over the last 48 hours. The state police arrested (not detained, arrested) an entire credentialed CNN crew during a live report near the burning police station for not moving fast enough, despite being plainly asking where the state police wanted him and his news crew to relocate to.

    The governor has deployed the National Guard to hospitals and grocery stores as a protective measure.

    Very, very few people wake up and decide today is the day I’m going to kill someone while doing my job. Even fewer expect if it occurs, this will be the result. By the same token, a similarly low percentage wake up and say “Pooh, today is the day we burn this motherfucker down, ” and then actually do it.

    When those two things are the outcome of the same event, there’s probably a lot more to the underlying stories than those of us who don’t live there can even begin to understand.

    What I do know is that when LEOs openly and brazenly arrest credentialed news crews live on TV for what appears to be no real, legitimate reason, there is something wrong at the core of the executive branch and their view of the subjects.
     

    Shady

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    Sure they can arrest them and then when they get let out on bail or own rec because of lack of evidence do you think that is going to make the situation better ?

    The cops involved are not a threat now that the badge has been removed from them

    Let justice do its thing



    The standard for arrest isnt innocent unless proven guilty. There was probable cause for an arrest at least as soon as the video was seen and certainly as soon as their reports were found to be bald faced lies. The two together are probable cause for arrest for more than just murder.

    There is no excuse for not arresting them at this point.

    And technicalities deriving from an arrest that result in a charge being voided or case tossed a extremely few, rarely occure, and completely known by all academy grads.

    No excuse at this point for not arresting these thugs.
     

    Shady

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    I Duno what you all watch but this is direct from the people doing the investigations

    Hennepin County District Attorney Michael Freeman, a Democrat, spoke with reporters on Thursday. Freeman said he did not want to rush to make charges in the choking death of George Floyd. Then Freeman added this:

    "I will say this, that the video is graphic, and horrific and terrible and no person should do that. But my job in the end is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that DOES NOT SUPPORT A CRIMINAL CHARGE. We need to wade through all of that evidence."



    But to hell with the legal system fry them NOW.

    You all should be more concerned with removing the punks burning cities to the ground.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I ...Hennepin County District Attorney Michael Freeman, a Democrat, spoke with reporters on Thursday. Freeman said he did not want to rush to make charges in the choking death of George Floyd. Then Freeman added this:

    "I will say this, that the video is graphic, and horrific and terrible and no person should do that. But my job in the end is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that DOES NOT SUPPORT A CRIMINAL CHARGE. We need to wade through all of that evidence.”

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here, but that’s eerily similar to the statement the county/district attorney said in the recent Georgia fiasco, which resulted in GBI charging the retired LEO and others within 48 hours.

    Like it or not, the DA with jurisdiction has a conflict of interest when investigating criminal acts that are committed by members of the forces that investigate crimes on his behalf.

    I’m not saying anyone is guilty, but I’m surely saying if the mitigating circumstances are that evident, then why is there a still need to “wade through all of that evidence” since the decision has been made already?

    That’s called talking out of both sides of your mouth, or having the thickest veil of officer immunity I’ve ever seen.
     

    candcallen

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    Little Elm
    Sure they can arrest them and then when they get let out on bail or own rec because of lack of evidence do you think that is going to make the situation better ?

    The cops involved are not a threat now that the badge has been removed from them

    Let justice do its thing
    Sigh.

    The prosecutor who made that comment regarding additional evidence is a fraking idiot who should have been forced to suit up and defend property. He is not responsible for the riots but definitely should have shut his mouth. If he has such evidence show it. The residents are not unreasonable thinking the fix is in. Many many murder arrests have been made in less time with less evidence. The whole technicality argument is a tenuous strawman at best not supported by the video.

    There is no additional evidence that would excuse sitting on a mans neck for 7 plus minutes after he was restrained. No training in any department anywhere proposes this as a tool in the use of force continuum. No evidence peroid.

    No probable cause arrest would be dismissed at a fraking bail hearing as that's not where evidence is adjudicated. No judge would support such a motion. Even at a preliminary hearing the video itself and falsified police reports are enough probable cause to goto trial.
     
    Last edited:

    Shady

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    you want to get really mad

    Some lawyers have said that you can interpret from that departments policy that what he did was within that policy.

    If that ends up being true well good luck on a conviction for 1st degree murder with all the racist white people out there.


    What if it turns out he died from some thing other than being choked ?
    Have you seen the coroners report ?
    shrug we don't know everything and as bad as it looks a rush to judgement will lead to things like

    OJ getting away with murder
    the coward of broward getting reinstated and back pay
     

    Axxe55

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    Some observations of mine about this.

    In these current times, of just about everyone has a cell phone with a camera, and the sheer number of cameras around us in very populated cities, these videos are now a part of our everyday lives. The officers had body cams. There was a security camera on the store where the incident took place. Now I understand the concept of, "innocent until proven guilty" and totally agree with that. But with all the videos surfacing already, there is the concept of, "the court of public opinion" at work here.

    I do believe that the officers should have been arrested sooner, (if they haven't been already.) as the burden of probably cause was already there, when the first videos started to surface. The officers accounts of the incident were completely different than the actual events. In all the videos I have seen so far, at no time did I observe Floyd resisting arrest. At the time he was being choked with the officers knee on his neck, (for seven to nine minutes.) he was handcuffed. At what point was he a threat to four officers, with guns, and Tasers? Even, if he were to be able to get up and run, just how far could he have run with his hands cuffed behind his back? U do believe that there is clearly enough to warrant arrests of all four officers at this point.

    Another point is, any prosecutor looking at all this, and knowing all the videos going viral on the internet and other sources, knows that finding an unbiased and impartial jury pool is going to be extremely, if not impossible. So any lawyers worth their pay, are going to be looking for a change of venue. In light of the severity of the potential outcome, it wouldn't be surprising a judge granting the change of venue.

    Charged and arrested isn't a conviction. Still innocent until proven in a court of law. Once they are charged, it still has to meet the burden of proof of the grand jury. Just one of the steps in the legal system. You never can tell what a grand jury will do. They are an unknown part of the legal system. Then there is always the possibility that the prosecutor will offer the four officers a plea deal, in order to not having to go through a trial. The officers may take the plea deal, or they may decide to fight this out in the courts. Entirely their option. Just another step in the legal system.

    I understand the reasons behind the protests, and I do personally approve of the protests, but not the looting, the violence, the vandalism or the burning of private property of companies who had nothing to do with the incident in any way. That is wrong. I understand the frustration of the citizens, but, these things have to be investigated, and done properly, because IF these officers are guilty, any lapse in doing it properly could result in them going free even IF they are guilty. That is another step in our legal system. Then you end up with a whole new set of circumstances that could result in more riots and protests. We have already seen that happen just in the past few years in very similar cases. I understand the demand for justice by the citizens of that community. It's very possible that the police in this town have acted improperly, and have abused their authority for too long, and this incident may be the tipping point.

    I understand some of the comments made my other members here. It's hard not to watch any of the videos that are being shown and not to have a reaction to them. I too have my own opinions, and honestly, part of me says, skip the trial and take them out back and put a bullet in their heads and be done with it. But cooler heads must prevail, and this needs to be done properly, and legally. I am glad that the federal DOJ has decided to get involved and do their own investigation. They could could as a result, bring even further charges against the four officers for other crimes they think may have been committed during this incident.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    you want to get really mad

    Some lawyers have said that you can interpret from that departments policy that what he did was within that policy.
    I can get a lawyer to interpret a lot of things being within policy, even though they are not. Just depends on how much I want to spend.

    ...If that ends up being true well good luck on a conviction for 1st degree murder...
    The mere presence of a policy does not mean the veil cannot be pierced.

    ...What if it turns out he died from some thing other than being choked ?
    Have you seen the coroners report ?
    ...
    Why is a coroner’s report needed? The prosecuting attorney has already stated that additional evidence shows no crime was committed. If that’s the case, then no trial is forthcoming, the investigation should be complete, and the evidence can be publicly released.

    Additionally, it’s highly unlikely cause of death will be definitive enough to determine manner of death as natural, accidental or intentional, except for that evidence mentioned above.
     

    Shady

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    let them stay out of jail where they can do the right thing and save us the time and money of a trial

    I know if I was a white law enforcement officer about to go to jail over killing a handcuffed minority I would not ever see the inside of a court room.

    How is that as a rush to judgment.
     

    Shady

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    What if the cause of death is from him eating an 8ball laced with phentanal or however you spell it ?


    I can get a lawyer to interpret a lot of things being within policy, even though they are not. Just depends on how much I want to spend.


    The mere presence of a policy does not mean the veil cannot be pierced.


    Why is a coroner’s report needed? The prosecuting attorney has already stated that additional evidence shows no crime was committed. If that’s the case, then no trial is forthcoming, the investigation should be complete, and the evidence can be publicly released.

    Additionally, it’s highly unlikely cause of death will be definitive enough to determine manner of death as natural, accidental or intentional, except for that evidence mentioned above.
     

    Axxe55

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