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Another sad “harmless” pitbull story

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  • jordanmills

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    I'm sorry that this happened. But, I don't blame the dog. I don't believe in bad dog breeds, but bad dog owners.

    You may not be hearing about them, but I have seen labs that would rip out your throat quicker than any pit bull!
    That's true. The problem is very rarely a "bad dog"... really just a dog doing what comes naturally to a dog. But a good dog owner would not leave an infant unattended with a dog of any kind. A big part of being a good dog owner is not putting your dog in a position where its canine nature leads it to do bad things.
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    ScorpionHunter

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    I have two pit bulls. I think they're great. I'm not sure how much of the breed's "fighting instinct" has been passed down in the last 100 years, but I will grant that they are very strong for their size and are muscular. I don't have proof or any way to know if this is true, but I've read that pit bulls are the only breed that won't bite the hand of its owner when pulling the dog out of a fight, and is the main reason they were used. The pit bulls are the only ones of my dogs to prefer being petted than to eating food in front of them. We're also very gentle and kind to all our dogs, so that might have more to do with it.

    I blame owners for dog attacks. If you're mean to the dog, it will be mean right back. And if you know you have a dog that you can't control or is unpredictable, don't leave it with kids or take it out in public.
     

    jrbfishn

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    Is “owning” necessary? Seriously? How many polar bears have you owned to know they are dangerous???

    That’s a poor misdirection, but I’ll play along.

    I’ve owned three purebred dogs and many others that were shelter “mutts”. The true purebreds were a female Alaskan Malamute (I bought her in Spain) that was the smartest dog I have owned, a male Bischon which was also a pretty smart, trainable dog we were rehabilitating from a bad situation, and a female Doberman.

    Zero Rotties, but been around a lot of them. Rotties were bred to work around people and pull butcher carts. Like many dogs bred for work, they had some guardian instincts.

    One Dobie, bought from a well established breeder in San Antonio recommended to me by a friend who raises dachshunds. The dog was a 1 year old female. Upon taking her home, we immediately began walking her and working with her. On third day of owning her, I returned her when, in front of me, she reached out and bit (a corrective “nip” to her I think) my 18 year old daughter who happened to walk by between the dog and me while I was in a chair. The bite, not really deep, but it drew blood. I immediately corrected the dog, but also called the Breeder who suggested I return the dog. She refunded my money.

    Dobies were bred by a tax collector as a dog that would accompany and protect him while making his rounds. Great dogs, but extremely protective and require a strong owner and solid boundaries. I honestly didn’t have the time.

    Zero German and Belgian Shepherds. They, like most true shepherds, were bred to protect herds and flocks. Inherently a very trainable breed, they evolved into military and other service specific working dogs.

    After an almost 30 year military career, I’ve met lots of dog folks who had lots of different dogs, including many “dangerous” breeds. One of the very best Akita Breeders was a neighbor of mine while stationed in Spain I’m good friends with a handful of military dog handlers. I have Visited some outstanding hunting and working dog breeders in both the US and Europe.

    What we know as “PitBulls” were specifically bred as fighting dogs...and they were bred not to strike and let go, they were bred to grip and hold, rip, shake, and tear apart to the death. That is a fact. It is in their nature.

    How many times have you heard the stories, often from cops, and here they had to either shoot the dog or use a bar to pry the pit’s mouth open to let go?

    That isn’t a trait shared by GSD’s or even Dobies. That is a bull dog trait, and specifically the pit, which Evolved from the English Staffordshire Bull Terrier lineage. The American Staffordshire was recognized as a separate breed in the 70’s.

    I may not be a dog whisperer, but I have studied breeds over the years. And the only part of this post I had to Google was when (1972) the American Pit was officially recognized as a separate breed.

    Again, I do not believe any breed is inherently bad, but I do understand different breeds were bred for different purposes and have traits specifically selected for those purposes.
    Pit Bulls are bred for muscle and stubbornness, not aggression. Aggression is tought.
    I have seen mine very carefully take a morsel from a child's hand without touching it with her teeth. Defend herself from an aggressive dog twice her size and play with it 5 minutes later. Watched her get knocked to the ground and jumped on with her tail wagging in joy. The bigger and rougher they play, the more she likes it.
    But she is STUBBORN. If she doesn't want to do something, you can literally beat her to death before she will do it.
    And several breeds will bite and die before they release. Many police breeds are that way.
    And several breeds of lap dogs actually bite people more than Pits do.
    Like chihuahuas. Those little bastards can be vicious.

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    Axxe55

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    That's true. The problem is very rarely a "bad dog"... really just a dog doing what comes naturally to a dog. But a good dog owner would not leave an infant unattended with a dog of any kind. A big part of being a good dog owner is not putting your dog in a position where its canine nature leads it to do bad things.

    My brother had a female Rottweiler named "Classie" that he had before he got married, and before he and his wife had two daughters. Surprisingly, she lived to be about 19 years old. Classie was those girls babysitter! The only time I ever saw Classie act in an aggressive manner was when an irate customer was cussing my brother at his shop one Saturday morning. Yeah, she was showing teeth and had a low deep growl.

    Jordan, I trust dogs much more than I trust most people. I just don't trust mine with my ham sandwich!
     

    deemus

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    And several breeds of lap dogs actually bite people more than Pits do.
    Like chihuahuas. Those little bastards can be vicious.

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    Truer words have rarely been spoken. I had the insides of my nose dang near destroyed by one. Bottom fangs up my nose. Top fangs clamping down on my nose. Blood on the wall. Blood all over me. Blood all over my now awakened mom. I hate those little bastards.
     

    Axxe55

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    Let's look at some facts, about pit bulls.

    https://www.caninejournal.com/pit-bull-facts/

    Traits in animals can be manipulated, encouraged, or suppressed by selective breeding. Undesirable traits in animals can sometimes be attributed to bad breeding practices. With selective breeding, you can bring out different traits in dogs that a person might find useful for certain types of jobs the dogs may perform. Those traits can then be further enhanced with proper training.

    One thing I have learned about dogs over the years, is they are loyal to their owners, or masters, and even more so when they are treated with love and attention, and respect.
     

    TexasFire316

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    Some guns are made to plink with joy, like a 22lr lever gun.
    Some guns are made to bring down several birds at once, like Joe Biden's double barrel.
    Some guns are made to scatter a group of thugs, like a 308 AR.

    Same thing with dogs. A pit is a fighting dog. Use it to defend what's important. Like a rotty. But dogs don't belong in the house with kids. At all, at any time.
     

    rotor

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    Let's look at some facts, about pit bulls.

    https://www.caninejournal.com/pit-bull-facts/

    Traits in animals can be manipulated, encouraged, or suppressed by selective breeding. Undesirable traits in animals can sometimes be attributed to bad breeding practices. With selective breeding, you can bring out different traits in dogs that a person might find useful for certain types of jobs the dogs may perform. Those traits can then be further enhanced with proper training.

    One thing I have learned about dogs over the years, is they are loyal to their owners, or masters, and even more so when they are treated with love and attention, and respect.
    What you call hogwash in my post #9 you seem to support in this post. I agree that with selective breeding you can produce certain traits in a dog and pits were selectively bred to fight in the pit. Are these good traits or bad, that is for you to decide.
    As far as dogs being loyal to their owners, my daughter had one that turned on her and she had to get rid of it and I had one that turned on me that I also got rid of, neither were pits. In general dogs are loyal to their owners but just like people they sometimes go crazy. I have been a dog owner for 65 years, some were great, some not. All were treated with love and affection. Genetics though is especially important. If a dog is bred to hunt it probably can be trained to be a good hunter. It will have the basic instinct to hunt. If it is defective, such as a gun shy dog, it probably will not make it as a hunter.
    I don't really understand the great claim that pits are so gentle. They are the number one breed involved in fatal human attacks. I say that and have many friends with gentle and wonderful pits. The meanest dogs that I have personally encountered are chihuahuas. They seem to be small pits. Especially bad in packs.
     

    deemus

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    Both of the big dogs were terrified of that Pomeranian. We had a 110 huge GSD for period of time while family was out of the country. He was food aggressive. But that little furry Pomeranian walked under the GSD while he was eating and started eating out the GSD’s bowl. He was the epitome of the alpha dog. Fearless.

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    Axxe55

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    Some guns are made to plink with joy, like a 22lr lever gun.
    Some guns are made to bring down several birds at once, like Joe Biden's double barrel.
    Some guns are made to scatter a group of thugs, like a 308 AR.

    Same thing with dogs. A pit is a fighting dog. Use it to defend what's important. Like a rotty. But dogs don't belong in the house with kids. At all, at any time.

    Seriously, you might want to study up on dog fighting. Very few people actually breed dogs for fighting. It's been illegal for decades. They fight just about any breed in illegal dog fighting.

    Dogs don't belong in the house around children? Seriously? LMAO Funny!

    Have you thought about a career in comedy? You're a natural!
     

    Axxe55

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    What you call hogwash in my post #9 you seem to support in this post. I agree that with selective breeding you can produce certain traits in a dog and pits were selectively bred to fight in the pit. Are these good traits or bad, that is for you to decide.
    As far as dogs being loyal to their owners, my daughter had one that turned on her and she had to get rid of it and I had one that turned on me that I also got rid of, neither were pits. In general dogs are loyal to their owners but just like people they sometimes go crazy. I have been a dog owner for 65 years, some were great, some not. All were treated with love and affection. Genetics though is especially important. If a dog is bred to hunt it probably can be trained to be a good hunter. It will have the basic instinct to hunt. If it is defective, such as a gun shy dog, it probably will not make it as a hunter.
    I don't really understand the great claim that pits are so gentle. They are the number one breed involved in fatal human attacks. I say that and have many friends with gentle and wonderful pits. The meanest dogs that I have personally encountered are chihuahuas. They seem to be small pits. Especially bad in packs.

    Rotor, I stand my all of my previous statements. You are entitled to believe whatever makes you feel good. Not going to argue with you over it, since you have already made your mind up that pit bulls and other large breeds are dangerous and will kill.
     

    jrbfishn

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    Some guns are made to plink with joy, like a 22lr lever gun.
    Some guns are made to bring down several birds at once, like Joe Biden's double barrel.
    Some guns are made to scatter a group of thugs, like a 308 AR.

    Same thing with dogs. A pit is a fighting dog. Use it to defend what's important. Like a rotty. But dogs don't belong in the house with kids. At all, at any time.
    When I was 9-12 years old, we had a german shepard/ collie mix. She hunted her own food mostly. Would only eat Gravy Train, sometimes. Dry food? Only if it was cooked in bacon grease. If anyone near grown up size raised a hand at a kid, or raised their voice much, she attacked them to protect the kid. Pop went spank me one day without thinking and almost lost his throat. If a baby fell asleep on her, she would not move. She would let a teething baby chew on her all day. She would growl, but not disturb or hurt them. Once Mom put a baby on the front entry outside in a stroller and told her to watch it. She kept 12 MPs from getting to the door and stroller. And my pit is very gentle around kids. Pretty much a baby anything for that matter. Even kittens.
    If you think no kid is safe around any dog, you don't know much.

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    Axxe55

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    When I was 9-12 years old, we had a german shepard/ collie mix. She hunted her own food mostly. Would only eat Gravy Train, sometimes. Dry food? Only if it was cooked in bacon grease. If anyone near grown up size raised a hand at a kid, or raised their voice much, she attacked them to protect the kid. Pop went spank me one day without thinking and almost lost his throat. If a baby fell asleep on her, she would not move. She would let a teething baby chew on her all day. She would growl, but not disturb or hurt them. Once Mom put a baby on the front entry outside in a stroller and told her to watch it. She kept 12 MPs from getting to the door and stroller. And my pit is very gentle around kids. Pretty much a baby anything for that matter. Even kittens.
    If you think no kid is safe around any dog, you don't know much.

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    I'd have paid good money to see ANYONE go near my nieces when they were young and my brother's Rottweiler Classie was around!

    For a few years, I had the brother of Classie. His name was Romeo!
     

    jrbfishn

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    That dog had pups with a great dane. One of them, we kept and named gordo, took to my Pop. He was Pop's dog, period. Another time he lost patience and swatted me without thinking, she went for his throat, he headed at me and they both went at each other. Sheer bedlam ensued. We finally got them separated before either got seriously hurt but there was blood from both dogs.
    The only time I saw her lose a fight was a military trained guard dog. A Sheppard twice her size. She went for his throat and missed. He went for throat and missed. They stopped, looked at each for a while, and both turned at the same time and walked away. The fight would have been epic. I had seen her take on 3 bigger dogs and win.
    I miss that dog. We got transferred and had to leave her at Ft Knox.

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    Axxe55

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    I didn’t start this thread because a dog bit a person, I started it because a dog killed a person.

    In that race, guess what breed is solidly in the lead???

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#354ba53d62f8

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    During a 12 year period, from 2005 to 2017. And that proves that pit bulls can kill people. So? I think anyone could figure that out. They are large and powerful dogs. But let's look at those numbers in proper context. Can you tell us under what conditions those people were killed ny pit bulls?

    Again, I'll stand on my previous statements. Maybe Buzz, you can go back and read some of the sources I linked in my posts.
     

    rotor

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    Rotor, I stand my all of my previous statements. You are entitled to believe whatever makes you feel good. Not going to argue with you over it, since you have already made your mind up that pit bulls and other large breeds are dangerous and will kill.
    I mentioned pits, Corgi, Boston Terriers and chihuahuas. What other large dogs are we talking about? I had a giant Akita at one time. Was a lover type. I just believe that genetics plays a large part of a dogs character and to deny that is not rational.
     

    jrbfishn

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    I didn’t start this thread because a dog bit a person, I started it because a dog killed a person.

    In that race, guess what breed is solidly in the lead???

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#354ba53d62f8

    View attachment 218601
    And I see way more Pits at the dog park than almost every other breed on that list. What is the ratio of attacks per 1000 of each breed? That is the only number that means much at all.
    German Shepperds, Dobermans and Rotts were once very common dogs. Rotts and Dobermans fell out of favor 20-25 years ago because they were so inbred that they were having mental issues and attacking their owners. They are much less common these days. Pitts on the other hand are very popular. I get asked to breed mine with another 1-3 times a week.

    Just like covid, you can cherry pick things that seem to bolster your point that under closer examination and put into context mean absolutely nothing.
    Are you and HKshooter friends by chance?

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