Hurley's Gold

000 buckshot stacked in .357 Magnum casing

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  • erratadata

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    Probably 25 to 30 years ago I read in American Rifleman or Guns & Ammo about this technique as a defensive round. It seems Remington produced the Multi-ball .357 with 2 balls of 000 shot for awhile, but discontinued the line. The article I read used 3 shot in a .357 or 2 shot in a .38 special. I'm not sure that 3 shot in a .357 would have enough space for a decent charge. Has anyone out there tried this? Here is a cutaway of Remington Multi-ball .357:

    multiball.jpg
     

    Andy

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    These loads always seem to interst folks who aren't real confident in hitting their target. No offense meant at all to anyone, but that's just how it always strikes me.
     

    Paul5388

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    Well, that maybe true, but it's been the case for over 40 years! Of course, the same could be said of the need for 15+ rounds in a gun?
     

    shortround

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    Some of the newfangled .410 self defense ammo intended for Taurus/Smith&Wesson .45 Colt revolvers use a combination of shot and a slug. I bought one box to try in a single shot .410 shot gun. Do I? Don't I?

    If it patterns decently at seven yards, yes. It it blows my gun to bits, no.
     

    CanTex

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    Some of the newfangled .410 self defense ammo intended for Taurus/Smith&Wesson .45 Colt revolvers use a combination of shot and a slug. I bought one box to try in a single shot .410 shot gun. Do I? Don't I?

    If it patterns decently at seven yards, yes. It it blows my gun to bits, no.

    I think the salient point is that this ammunition designed and built for a very short barrel pistol. So, just on the basics of KISS, shotgun loads in shotguns and pistol loads in pistols.

    Having said that, 9mm it is a pistol, carbine and machine gun round. However, someone else tested it out on their equipment and did all the calculations.
    So, my two cents, IF you try it and let us know how it works I may down the line, with enough positive reports try it in my .410 single. But till that time, I would only load a shotgun with shotgun ammo.
     

    erratadata

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    I guess when you throw something out there asking for opinions, you should expect various opinions, some good, some... well not so much.

    Let me try to explain my rationale. First off, it's not for an inability to hit what I'm aiming at. I tend to blow a softball sized hole from 15 yards with just about any handgun with a 5" or greater sight radius. This, of course in an isosceles stance, with my bifocals on, good lighting, and controlled breathing.

    The self defense scenario is entirely different however. I carry an Officer's ACP when I'm out and about, in condition one, and I have for over 30 years, but I keep the wheelgun (S&W 686 4" bbl) in the nightstand, because I still believe in the 100% reliability of the wheelgun. In the event of a nightime break-in, I will likely not have the time to stand up, retrieve my glasses, and get into a perfect stance with controlled breathing and perfect lighting.

    The ability to send 2 (or more) decent sized projectiles in the direction of an attacker, seems quite appealing to me, and to almost all self-defense minded people, as evidenced by the overwhelming amount of recommendations of a shotgun for home defense. Millions of Judges, Governors, and the like have been sold with this in mind also.

    I.m an old fashioned guy, with old fashioned philosophies. You can keep your Glocks, spray-and-pray 9's, and the like. They're fine, if you like them, but they're not for me. I believe that the first shot MUST count, or there may not be time for subsequent shots.
     

    Younggun

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    I guess when you throw something out there asking for opinions, you should expect various opinions, some good, some... well not so much.

    Let me try to explain my rationale. First off, it's not for an inability to hit what I'm aiming at. I tend to blow a softball sized hole from 15 yards with just about any handgun with a 5" or greater sight radius. This, of course in an isosceles stance, with my bifocals on, good lighting, and controlled breathing.

    The self defense scenario is entirely different however. I carry an Officer's ACP when I'm out and about, in condition one, and I have for over 30 years, but I keep the wheelgun (S&W 686 4" bbl) in the nightstand, because I still believe in the 100% reliability of the wheelgun. In the event of a nightime break-in, I will likely not have the time to stand up, retrieve my glasses, and get into a perfect stance with controlled breathing and perfect lighting.

    The ability to send 2 (or more) decent sized projectiles in the direction of an attacker, seems quite appealing to me, and to almost all self-defense minded people, as evidenced by the overwhelming amount of recommendations of a shotgun for home defense. Millions of Judges, Governors, and the like have been sold with this in mind also.

    I.m an old fashioned guy, with old fashioned philosophies. You can keep your Glocks, spray-and-pray 9's, and the like. They're fine, if you like them, but they're not for me. I believe that the first shot MUST count, or there may not be time for subsequent shots.

    Lol.

    You say semi auto pistol are "spray and pray" and that's not for you, but you are trying to make your revolver "spray" lead with each shot.


    That said, 12 holes are better than six. I just question how much penetration you will get.

    IF penetration is adequate I would say it would be better suites to home defense than normal carry around town. I don't want to account for where the extra projectiles are going.
     

    erratadata

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    Lol.

    You say semi auto pistol are "spray and pray" and that's not for you, but you are trying to make your revolver "spray" lead with each shot.

    Most of my handguns are semi-autos, I carry one, and I like them just fine. It's the hi-cap 9's, that I consider the "spray and pray's". The wheelgun is my choice in the described scenario because of reliability.

    The link for Doubletap, posted by Shootingthebull (above) describes the ballistics:

    Two hits on target with every shot! That is what you get with the new Equalizer load in 357 Magnum from Doubletap. It incorporates a 125gr JHP over a 70gr solid bullet giving the shooter the ability to get good penetration from one hit along with good reliable expansion with the second. In ordinance gelatin you will get 11.5" penetration and .64" expansion from the first hit and 17.5" penetration and no expansion from the second hit from a 2" snub nosed revolver!

    Velocity: 1100fps / 4" Ruger GP-100
    990fps / 1 7/8" S&W
    1145fps / 6"bbl S&W 686

    I would call that adequate stopping power.
     

    M. Sage

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    LOL, so if I run a 20 round magazine in my Sig, it's suddenly spray and pray?

    You can consider it so, but I consider it an acknowledgement of reality - badguys don't always stop after 2, 3, 5, or even 6 hits, even if they're good hits (especially when you're using a handgun, regardless of caliber). And badguys sometimes travel in packs.

    As a man much wiser than I once said, "ammo in the gun is time in the fight." I seem to recall something about "click" being the loudest noise you can hear in a gun fight, too. :p
     

    erratadata

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    LOL, so if I run a 20 round magazine in my Sig, it's suddenly spray and pray?

    You can consider it so, but I consider it an acknowledgement of reality - badguys don't always stop after 2, 3, 5, or even 6 hits, even if they're good hits (especially when you're using a handgun, regardless of caliber). And badguys sometimes travel in packs.

    As a man much wiser than I once said, "ammo in the gun is time in the fight." I seem to recall something about "click" being the loudest noise you can hear in a gun fight, too. :p

    I don't condemn you, or anyone else for their choice of weaponry. They're just not my cup of tea. I consider myself adequately armed with my .45 and 8 rounds of Black Talons. On the few days when it's cold enough in San Antonio, I wear a shoulder rig with 2 additional magazines.

    What I am interested in is not the street combat scenario, but the middle-of-the-night, no glasses, darkness, half asleep scenario.
     

    Andy

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    I just question how much penetration you will get.
    That's my concern as well. Placement by itself is useless without sufficient penetration.

    Two 70-grain (or so) soft lead projectiles at handgun velocities wouldn't be likely to penetrate as deep as I'd like, it would likely be similar to 2 shots from a .32, would be my half-assed guess.

    No such thing as a free lunch....
     
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    Younggun

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    I wouldn't mind having some to load for the occasional varmint. Sometimes they can move quick and be hard to hit. Carrying a shotgun at all times on the property just isn't feasible.
     

    M. Sage

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    I don't condemn you, or anyone else for their choice of weaponry. They're just not my cup of tea. I consider myself adequately armed with my .45 and 8 rounds of Black Talons. On the few days when it's cold enough in San Antonio, I wear a shoulder rig with 2 additional magazines.

    What I am interested in is not the street combat scenario, but the middle-of-the-night, no glasses, darkness, half asleep scenario.

    If that's the scenario you're worried about, why are we talking about limiting ourselves in power and capacity by choosing a handgun? Handguns are great because they're easy to carry, but that's the only good thing about them. If you're worried about that scenario, pick up a carbine of some sort. Easier to use, easier to hang a light on it, and a 30 round magazine (in addition to the huge increase in lethality a 2000fps+ bullet wound brings over handguns) puts you at the top of the heap against anybody who thinks your house might be fun to burglarize.

    Home invasion types are even MORE likely to travel in packs.

    Handguns are for carry, or to supplement a real gun - a rifle.
     
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