1917 enfield vs 03a3

[country_boy]

What’s the difference? I know ones an enfield ones not. Both shoot 30-06.

Other than that?????

 

[Moonpie]

The 1917 Enfield rifle was a modified Pattern 1914 British design.
Just prior to WW1 the Brits decided to field a new rifle. The Pattern 1914 or more commonly known as the P-14.
Just about the time the war started the Brits were in a bind on this new rifle. Change to a new design or ramp up production of the much more common No.1 MkIII? They did both.
The Brits contracted with American arms makers to make the P-14 while at home they would make the No.1 MkIII.
During the big U.S. WW1 spool up, the U.S. Military didn't have nearly enough 1903 Springfields in inventory.
The 1917 was an expedient solution. A few design tweeks to fit the .30-06 cartridge and production went full steam ahead on the 1917 while P-14 productin halted.
Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone made the rifle.
By mid 1918 there were actually more 1917's in hands of the Doughboys than 1903's.
It turned out to be a superb battle rifle. Its one weakness is its ejector.
After WW1 the 1903 remained standard issue while the 1917 went into storage and sold as surplus.

Same kinda thing happened in the WW2 spool up.
The 1903 was still the standard rifle for the Marines and many units in the Army. The Army had adopted the M1 Garand in 1936 but due to low funding few units had M1's as the war was building.
Remington had been contracted to build new 1903's.
As the war cranked up after Pearl Harbor, Remington got approval to build a cheaper/faster version of the 1903 we now know as the 1903A3. Again a war time expedient design. A3 production cranked up to fill in until M1 production could catch up. Smith-Corona was also sub-contracted to produce A3's.
By late 1943, early 1944 M1 production had increased enough where A3 production ceased.

Which rifle is superior? Difficult to say.
Its a Ford vs. Chevy thing.
The 1903A3 Might have better accuracy.
Many many custom big bore hunting rifles have used the 1917 action.
If I had to carry one then definitely the A3.
An original 1917 is a beast to tote around.

Edit: The 1917 cocks on bolt closing. The 1903 cocks on bolt opening.
Which is better? IMO, its a wash. The Brits thought cock on closing gave more power to the rotating bolt on opening. With all manner of corroded/dirty/funky ammo used in those days they were probably right.
Remember the famous Enfield .303 did the same.

The 1903 also suffers because of the rather fragile front sight. It can be damaged quite easily. It is also very narrow and difficult to see in low light.
The 1917 has a robust front sight thats protected by "ears". It is a superior design for a battle rifle.

The correct answer young padawhan is to Get Both.

 

[robertc1024]

I kneel before the master.

 

[BRD@66]

I kneel before the master.

yeah.

 

[baboon]

I have seen a few 1917 that have been sporterized in to .458 Win mags. Not all of them are deemed safe enough for the conversion. The ears are always cut off.

I had an O3A3 built into a SBR in .308 nice hog gun!

 

[SQLGeek]

I have seen a few 1917 that have been sporterized in to .458 Win mags. ... The ears are always cut off.

That's terrible.

 

[MTA]

The M1917 is built like a brick shithouse. I find the quality higher than my 1903.

Sporterizing is heresy

 

[baboon]

The M1917 is built like a brick shithouse. I find the quality higher than my 1903.

Sporterizing is heresy

If your were around in the great days of surplus WWI & II bolt action when they could be had for under $10.00 you would have seen it the same way that all the guy & gunsmiths did too. The Brick Shithouse was a fine gun to build cheap dangerous game rifles in .458 out of. Not all 1917 are of that high quality to build a .458 on.

Now you really want to hear about heresy. Norman York the inventor of the BMF Activator, along with a few other things work up a way to turn the M1 Garand rifle into a bolt gun. Back in the day of cheap & readily available Garand Rifles a conversion on the Garand could be had much cheaper then buying a Winchester or Remington bolt gun. Not all states allowed hunting with a semi auto rifle.

I actually seen 3 remaining conversion kits a couple of years ago. While an interesting part in surplus gun history, it was one of those WTF moments.

 

[country_boy]

Well I bought neither. Saved my money.

 

[TX OMFS]

 

[satx78247]

To All,

Fwiw, I actually PREFER the 1917 to ANY 03 or the 03A3, as it is simply a superior main battle rifle, though definitely HEAVY to carry.
(The famed SGT York, after having set marksmanship records in Basic Training, could have used any rifle & he chose a "plain vanilla" 1917 by Remington.= SMART man, imo. Records from that era state that he "tried out" several new rifles until he found THE rifle that he preferred.)

Further, the old 1917 excels as a "bean field rifle" from an elevated stand, where it's weight is secondary/unimportant. = In good condition, with match-grade JSP ammo, it will consistently take deer/hogs out to 400+M, IF you can hold it steady & use superior marksmanship techniques.)

Btw, SGT York, in front of several witnesses, killed a German machine-gunner out well beyond 500M.
(York of course was an expert target shooter/marksman, with numerous rifle match wins to his credit & dating to before WWI.)

yours, satx

 

[Charley]

I much prefer the M1917 as well. Better sights, definitely! Two falsehoods about on the 1917s, though. Many refer to them as "Pattern 17". Wrong. English used the "Pattern" term, and indeed the "Pattern 14" was almost the same rifle, in 303. The US versions are "M" for Model, 1917.
Also many stories float around about some 1917 manufacturers used English spec barrels, claiming they were oversized for the US .308 diameter bullets. They do have 5 lands and grooves, making them a little harder to measure accurately without the proper tools. Phil Sharpe, Townsend Whelen, Julian Hatcher and several other former military and ordnance officers say it flat didn't happen that all M1917 barrels were designed and manufactured for .308 diameter bullets. Hatcher's Notebook spends a couple of paragraphs on the subject, if I remember correctly.

 

[Gummi Bear]

I have a 1917 Eddystone.

My great uncle bought it when he got home from WWII. Not sure if he had it sporterized, or if he bought it that way.

It has a nice monte carlo stock, and Redfield peep sights. He hunted deer, bear and elk with it until he wasn’t able to hunt anymore. It was given to me nearly 20 years ago. I’ve hunted with it a bit, and shot it at the range quite a bit.

It’s a darn nice rifle. The recoil pad is so hard it’s not at all helpful, I need to get a new one installed.

I’ve looked at, but never shot a 1903, so no real feedback there.



I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I have a 1917 Eddystone.

My great uncle bought it when he got home from WWII. Not sure if he had it sporterized, or if he bought it that way.

It has a nice monte carlo stock, and Redfield peep sights. He hunted deer, bear and elk with it until he wasn’t able to hunt anymore. It was given to me nearly 20 years ago. I’ve hunted with it a bit, and shot it at the range quite a bit.

It’s a darn nice rifle. The recoil pad is so hard it’s not at all helpful, I need to get a new one installed.

I’ve looked at, but never shot a 1903, so no real feedback there.



I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau

Where are the pictures?

 

[Gummi Bear]

I’ll have to remember to snap a pic of it next trip to the Farm. I don’t have one on my phone.



I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau

 

[country_boy]

Well thanks fellows for the info but the deal fell through
I won’t be buying any time in distant the future.

 

[satx78247]

country boy,

Well that's too bad.

yours, satx