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230gr Colt 45 load

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  • TexMex247

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    I bought a thousand of these berry's hybrid hollow points last year with hopes that they would shoot great in my ACPs. As it turns out, they run thick and shave even with proper belling and a light chamfer. If I heavily chamfer each piece of brass they're workable but I digress. They didn't shoot as well as hoped either, so I thought why not load them into Colt brass and see how they shoot?

    Typically my six guns like the slightly over sized bullets and actually shoot them a little better. Normally I would be cautious about the 230gr bullet but the Hollow point profile is wider than a primer, so I'm confident to load them up knowing they will see some action in a lever gun too.

    Usually I'd do a bunch of homework and work something up from the low end. As it happens I've done so much work with unique and plated bullets before I pumped out 50 all over 8.3gr. I know that's mild enough even for my cimmaron but punchy enough to shoot well in the rifle. I may even do a second batch at 8.5 and chronograph them both.

    Anyhow I felt it was worthy enough for its own thread. I'm hoping a few a you guys have already gone down this road and can share some knowledge too. I've gone the other way with great success and actually have a mild shooting 200gr rnfp load for the ACP using Colt lead bullets already. Here's a picture of the first batch...
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    GasGuzzler

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    I don't use plated or jacketed bullets in revolver rounds but I bet they'll work. Have you tried post sizing the 45 AUTO with a Lee FCD to see if they shoot better? AUTO has a tapered case like 9X19 so maybe that's why they shave.
     

    Ozzman

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    To the OP.

    In my experience, the "rule of thumb" for 45-caliber bullets is:
    - Only use .451 diameter jacketed bullets, and/or .452 cast bullets in .45 ACP
    - .452 jacketed bullets are generally for the revolvers.

    What you have there are 1000 230 grain .452 jacketed bullets for .45 LC, Cowboy Special, or Schofield.

    EDIT:
    Quick question I forgot to ask... Do these bullets have a cannelure?
     

    Nicholst55

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    I would suggest that you need a larger expander plug for your .45 ACP dies. Traditionally, they are on the small size. I had a machinist buddy make me one a tad larger in diameter, and it works very well with cast bullets (typically .452"). A Lyman M die or an NOE expander die would serve the same purpose.
     

    Ozzman

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    I would suggest that you need a larger expander plug for your .45 ACP dies. Traditionally, they are on the small size. I had a machinist buddy make me one a tad larger in diameter, and it works very well with cast bullets (typically .452"). A Lyman M die or an NOE expander die would serve the same purpose.
    Yea, be careful with this.
    Lee makes an expander die that can accomplish this. I have done this ONCE in my youth with 45 ACP, and won't ever do it again.
    Remember, .45 ACP headspaces to the case mouth, and the first sizing pass in the die sets and establishes this dimension moving forward. Expanding it or crimping it after this point is not the best idea IMO.

    I'm not a doom and gloom guy, but what can happen is the reloaded cartridge is oversized and not to specifications the case may not chamber properly, or possibly cause unsafe pressures depending on your powder selection. Forcing a semi-auto handgun to shoot a bullet that overall fits odd, had to be shaved or sized to properly seat, etc. is not a good practice at the reloading bench.
     

    Nicholst55

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    While I understand your concern, the Lee Universal Expander die that you refer to is totally different than what I'm speaking of. All it does is bell the case mouth, not expand the ID. The Lyman M die and the NOE expander (which uses the Lee expander die BODY only) have a spud that extends inside the case and expands it slightly. We're talking maybe .001-002". This enables you to seat either cast or slightly larger diameter jacketed or plated bullets without shaving lead or collapsing the case. The bullet seating die is supposed to iron out any irregularities during bullet seating. If it doesn't, that's what taper crimp dies are for. Obviously, when introducing another variable into your reloading process, you don't just do it and then load 1,000 rounds without checking things out to insure that they work. Not unless you enjoy pulling bullets. I would load a couple of dummy rounds with no powder or primer, and manually cycle them through my gun a couple of times after trying the 'plunk' test with them. If everything works smoothly, then you can load up a small quantity (maybe 50 rounds), and then test-fire them. If all is good, you load up whatever quantity you feel like.

    I have loaded and fired thousands of rounds of .45 ACP using both a Lyman M die and my modified RCBS expander without any trouble at all.

    And FWIW, I am one of the people that feel that the Lee Factory Crimp Die (for pistols) is a solution in search of a problem. They are frequently used improperly, and create more problems than they ever could have solved.

    Compare the three that I referenced. The NOE expanders are available in several different sizes for .45 pistols. NOE also offers a lot of very useful bullet molds and other products.

    Lee Universal Expander

    Lyman M Die

    NOE Expanders
     

    TexMex247

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    This particular batch of bullets were marketed as and intended for the 45 auto. They measure at .452" or so which is a touch over for their purpose. I did notice if I seated any deeper than a COL of 1.585" I was going to be crimping at or past the ogive. There's also no cannelure since these are 45 auto bullets but I use a lee fcd die run at a half turn for a light but present crimp.
     

    Nicholst55

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    This particular batch of bullets were marketed as and intended for the 45 auto. They measure at .452" or so which is a touch over for their purpose. I did notice if I seated any deeper than a COL of 1.585" I was going to be crimping at or past the ogive. There's also no cannelure since these are 45 auto bullets but I use a lee fcd die run at a half turn for a light but present crimp.
    Actually, .452" is what most cast or swaged lead bullets intended for the .45 ACP will run. Anything larger can be problematic. Not all barrels will accept a cartridge loaded with a .453" bullet.
     

    GasGuzzler

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    Still would not run .452" plated in AUTO. But I would not run any plated in .45 Colt (or .38 Special or .357 Magnum or .44 Special)...unless I had 997 of them with no other use.

    I have some NOE expanders to re-distribute. Not sure I have a .45X. I'll look.
     

    TexMex247

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    I took two different calipers to these and they ran .4525 across several samples. I'm not sure if berry's goofed on this batch or if they intentionally ran them wide. They didn't act odd in the 1911 other than a somewhat loose grouping.

    As far as loading them for the Colt, I've seen great accuracy over the years in numerous plated loads I shoot through a super Blackhawk hunter as well as a Rossi lever gun. Sometimes you can feel the FCD iron out the oversized bullets back down to size. Same for the ACP. I always use them as an insurance policy even if I'm running minimal crimp.

    Knowing these are as wide as they are, I think they're best suited for the Colt. I recently put together 30 more rounds at a slightly higher charge of 8.5gr unique. I'll chronograph some of these 2 loads and put them on paper before I go one direction or the other.
     

    TexMex247

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    I'm now up to 9.0 gr of unique which is a max charge in a few manuals. This combination is cleaning up and grouping nicely as the charge has gone up. The 8.3gr and 8.5gr loads shot just fine in both a super Blackhawk hunter as well as a 20" Rossi. I'm actually thinking of bumping it up just a tenth or two more knowing those guns can easily handle it.

    At 9.0gr I'm averaging 1000 fps on a warm gun(pistol) and 988 on a hot one. Grouping is slightly better than the lighter loads. My 8.5 gr loads were at 933 and 934 averages over 2 different sessions. So really nothing wrong with 8.5 but I can't help but push to 9.1 or 9.2 just to satisfy my curiosity. Overall I think I found a great fit for these Berry's hhp bullets albeit in a different caliber.
     

    GasGuzzler

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    You will not hurt a thing going to 10 I bet. Work up slowly and watch for pressure signs.

    The Rossi has a slow 1:30" twist and needs velocity to stabilize and can take 35K PSI.

    The Ruger is plenty strong too.

    That being said, Unique is not my first pick for anything. It can do a lot of different things okay but nothing great.
     

    scattergun6

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    TexMex247,
    Thanks for these posts. I load 45 Colt for a Rossi Hartford 1892 and now for my Taurus Judge. Always interested to see how others are faring in their reloading experiments.
    I've recently loaded some swaged 185 grain SWCs in 45 Colt brass for the Judge - haven't had a chance to shoot them yet but am wondering how well they will work and if that long cylinder in the Taurus will cause any problems.
    Never know until you try!
     

    TexMex247

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    Looks like I found my stopping point today. I'll have to dig up some older targets to be sure but I'm not gaining any significant speed and my groups are opening back up @9.3.

    At 9.1 I averaged a dead even 1000fps but I did have one slight undercharge that was 50 fps off the others. If I excluded that I'm probably at 1005 fps or so. With 9.3gr I was averaging 1017 fps. All these numbers through a 7.5" Ruger super Blackhawk hunter.

    Now I'm leaning towards churning out a few hundred at 9.1. Unless my 9.0 target was better that will be a standard load for me for that pistol and my Rossi. Probably a safe load for any post war Colt but I'll still assign them to my modern guns.
     

    GasGuzzler

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    Yeah you probably found the limit of the 7.5" pistol barrel. I still think a slower powder and a little higher velocity will work better in the 1:30" Rossi than what you've developed for the Ruger.

    I would be curious to see you try H110, Li'lGun, A2400, and/or 300-MP.
     

    TexMex247

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    I have some 2400 on hand as well as AA#5. I read through a few posts on various forums that recommended both of those powders. I have over 8lbs of AA#5 and only 4 of 2400. I'm trying to save the 2400 for 357 mag loads.
     

    scattergun6

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    TexMex247 and GasGuzzler,
    What do y'all think of Bullseye, TiteGroup and/or Red Dot as fuel for the 45 Colt? I've recently loaded 185 grain lead bullets over relatively small charges of each but have yet to shoot these loads. In the past when reloading for the 20" barrel of my Rossi I mostly used Trail Boss or Clays under a 250 grain hard cast lead bullet. I don't shoot the 45 Colt that often (gotta get back to it) and I don't own a chronograph, so I can't provide any velocity data. Your opinions and input are welcome!
     
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