Lynx Defense

30.06 and 30.07 sign postings

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  • majormadmax

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    It appears as though I may need to do some reading and not put much stock in what I heard in class. It's a little disappointing to think others that were in my class may not go and do their own reading and be stuck where I was. Thanks for looking out. I assure you I have always put the LTC in the way back of my to-do list because of working in education. I can't carry at work and it is school policy not to have anything in your car either. The new HB1143 looks like that got taken care of for me.

    Just be aware that if the situation ever arises that you have to use a handgun in self defense, your LTC instructors will not be liable for your actions. Neither will any legal representation you may have. It will be you who will be held accountable so it makes sense to know and abide by the applicable codes and statutes...
     

    majormadmax

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    Per TABC...

    All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs. One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun: establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premises consumption or, if licensed for sale for on-premises consumption, establishments whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts. It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

    The second sign, the 51% sign, is to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal. These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning and the warning notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

    As a general rule, a true restaurant will have alcohol sales that are less than 50% of gross receipts and would be expected to post the first sign. However, if its alcohol sales are greater than 50% of gross receipts, then it would have to post the second.

    Source: https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/sign_requirements.asp

    And per 46.035 UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER...

    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

    Source: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
     

    txinvestigator

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    I just took the course recently so hopefully I have up to date info. The 51% signs can be skirted around in establishments like restaurants by not sitting at the bar. You're good at a table based on the definition of premise.
    No, 51% has nothing to do with where you sit in 99% of circumstances. The definition of premises means a building or a portion of a building. 51% applies to places who derive 51% or more of their income from the sale or service or alcoholic beverages for on premise consumption. The defining factor is whether the location is determined by TABC to be 51%. Where you sit has nothing to do with it UNLESS the bar area has a separate license from the restaurant. If you cannot carry alcohol into and out of the bar area this might apply. Not many places where I have ever seen that. See penal code 46.035 and the TAB code.

    There has been a lot more debate on printing lately. If you are printing, you are not concealed. If you see 30.07 and pull your shirt over it, it's not ok if you're printing. If you reach for an item on a high shelf and it becomes visible, you are no longer concealed.
    Umm, has there been case law on that? Because the law never addresses "printing" whatever that means. under 46.035 a handgun is concealed unless you INTENTIONALLY display the handgun in PLAIN VIEW of another person in a public place.


    find out that all school property is a no-go. As in if you are walking your dog late at night down a sidewalk in front of a school, you can get in trouble for that if you're carrying. That doesn't matter to most people but some of us have an elementary school in our neighborhood.
    That is incorrect too. Let's look at that law

    Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

    (1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private,


    Notice the use of "physical premises" The law defines premises "
    (f) In this section:



    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.



    So unless an activity sponsored by the school is going on late at night on that sidewalk, you can carry


    pretty much 100% of that is incorrect. Who the hell was your instructor?
     

    Geezer

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    Looks like things are a little different in Texas. I'll have to do some research and educate myself. I have never heard of the 51% sign and had to go to Google to see what it is. We have the usual corporate owned businesses that are posted and can't legally carry in post offices, government buildings, etc. But most places around here are gun friendly.
    We don't have open carry, only concealed. We can carry in a bar but cannot legally drink while carrying. There are a few places around here that display this sign.

    Concealed-Carry-Sign-NHE-16347_1000.gif
     

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    Hoji

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    I just took the course recently so hopefully I have up to date info. The 51% signs can be skirted around in establishments like restaurants by not sitting at the bar. You're good at a table based on the definition of premise. There has been a lot more debate on printing lately. If you are printing, you are not concealed. If you see 30.07 and pull your shirt over it, it's not ok if you're printing. If you reach for an item on a high shelf and it becomes visible, you are no longer concealed. If you're ever asked to leave, never argue and just leave. I did find out that all school property is a no-go. As in if you are walking your dog late at night down a sidewalk in front of a school, you can get in trouble for that if you're carrying. That doesn't matter to most people but some of us have an elementary school in our neighborhood.
    I would REALLY like to know who the instructor is that taught your class.

    I will not take the time to correct everything in just this post that is incorrect, but I would highly suggest that you take the class again with someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

    Seriously.
     

    benenglish

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    The academic portion of my course was a joke, not only did they foot-stomp the items that would be on the test, but I recall a "review" being on the TV while we were taking the exam.
    I had the same experience except my instructor didn't turn on the TV during the exam. He just answered any questions anyone wanted to ask him. Seriously. Just ask a question from the test and he'd answer it. I still got one answer wrong because he answered my question incorrectly. :)
     

    Texas Heat

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    I'm pretty sure our tests were a "no-fail" situation as well. At least I can count on some rednecks to correct me :) I think in the case of where I went, so many former military guys think the course is such a joke that they actually made it one. I appreciate the info. It's better I find out I need to know more here before I find out too late. He joked a lot of the class. He was funny. Not near as educational, but funny. I think he ended the class by calling us all brilliant snipers and sent us on our way. So where is that book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out? Don't worry about me too much though. I finally decided to take the LTC class, not just started shooting as well. You guys are no less or more safe on the street with my new piece of paper. I have always spent my class time on shooting exercises. I think the guys I go to for that are pretty good. I guess I should probably try a different place for that too to make sure as well.
     

    Stick_Shift

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    Kinda glad to see a lot of this information in this thread; the sign posting are my major concern at the moment. I'm hyper-aware of looking for them. I don't think these establishments have a required location to post the signs, just that they're up and visible. A lot of places do us the courtesy of making sure they're right there on the door so anyone can read it, which I really appreciate of them.

    My instructor was a hard case. He didn't cut me or the other guy any slack, which I'm grateful for. He gave us exactly what we needed to know and made sure we worked independently. As a matter of fact, he kind of read the other guy the riot act because this kid thought all he had to do was take the class and he'd get his license. Had no idea there was an application process. As we were leaving, the guy muttered under his breath to me, "that kid doesn't need a license to carry".
     

    easy rider

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    I'm pretty sure our tests were a "no-fail" situation as well. At least I can count on some rednecks to correct me :) I think in the case of where I went, so many former military guys think the course is such a joke that they actually made it one. I appreciate the info. It's better I find out I need to know more here before I find out too late. He joked a lot of the class. He was funny. Not near as educational, but funny. I think he ended the class by calling us all brilliant snipers and sent us on our way. So where is that book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out? Don't worry about me too much though. I finally decided to take the LTC class, not just started shooting as well. You guys are no less or more safe on the street with my new piece of paper. I have always spent my class time on shooting exercises. I think the guys I go to for that are pretty good. I guess I should probably try a different place for that too to make sure as well.
    https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Gun-La...ateway&sprefix=texas+law+shie,aps,1306&sr=8-2
     

    easy rider

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    My instructor was a hard case. He didn't cut me or the other guy any slack, which I'm grateful for. He gave us exactly what we needed to know and made sure we worked independently. As a matter of fact, he kind of read the other guy the riot act because this kid thought all he had to do was take the class and he'd get his license. Had no idea there was an application process. As we were leaving, the guy muttered under his breath to me, "that kid doesn't need a license to carry".

    Yeah, my instructor was much the same, he had been doing that for about 30 years.
    He also had the Texas Law Shield books for $10, but said he wouldn't give us the hard sell on the insurance, it was up to us.
     

    majormadmax

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    I'm pretty sure our tests were a "no-fail" situation as well. At least I can count on some rednecks to correct me :) I think in the case of where I went, so many former military guys think the course is such a joke that they actually made it one. I appreciate the info. It's better I find out I need to know more here before I find out too late. He joked a lot of the class. He was funny. Not near as educational, but funny. I think he ended the class by calling us all brilliant snipers and sent us on our way. So where is that book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out? Don't worry about me too much though. I finally decided to take the LTC class, not just started shooting as well. You guys are no less or more safe on the street with my new piece of paper. I have always spent my class time on shooting exercises. I think the guys I go to for that are pretty good. I guess I should probably try a different place for that too to make sure as well.

    I am beginning to wonder if your attention span (or lack thereof) might also be a factor, as I posted a link to the Texas Department of Safety book in post #100, only eight posts before you asked for a "book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out." Here it is again...

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/LTC-16.pdf
     

    txinvestigator

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    I am beginning to wonder if your attention span (or lack thereof) might also be a factor, as I posted a link to the Texas Department of Safety book in post #100, only eight posts before you asked for a "book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out." Here it is again...

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/LTC-16.pdf

    That booklet is simply a compilation of laws that pertain to LTC, there is no "Plain English" involved. lol
     

    Texas Heat

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    I am beginning to wonder if your attention span (or lack thereof) might also be a factor, as I posted a link to the Texas Department of Safety book in post #100, only eight posts before you asked for a "book of laws that is written in human English so that I don't need a lawyer to sort it out." Here it is again...

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/LTC-16.pdf
    That is not at all what I was asking. Anything that refers to penal codes longer than my telephone number and sends me towards paragraph Q, subsection 836 and uses words that I have to look up every other line isn't the human English I meant. I was looking for something similar to DON'T CARRY HERE and DO THIS IF THIS HAPPENS type language. Sorry.
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    That is not at all what I was asking. Anything that refers to penal codes longer than my telephone number and sends me towards paragraph Q, subsection 836 and uses words that I have to look up every other line isn't the human English I meant. I was looking for something similar to DON'T CARRY HERE and DO THIS IF THIS HAPPENS type language. Sorry.

    I have the same problem....
     
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