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30.06 sign....boycott?

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  • Morgan

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    One can state that a business who posts 30.06 isn't necessarily doing to to infringe our 2A rights. If someone hits me in the head with a baseball bat because they don't like my ball cap, but don't intend to kill me, the result still may be my death. Likewise, they may not INTEND to infringe on my 2A rights, but they are. Ergo, I will boycott. Stating things about how a business probably won't lose EVERY CHL carrier's business is likely accurate, but so what? The point is, there's a pool of self selected indivisuals who have these licenses and posting 30.06 MAY alienate them all. That's all the business needs to know, that hundreds of thousands of Texans may be alienated by their sign. I believe that being listed on the 30.06 website is a larger deterrant to the business, because someone doing a google search of the business may find them on that list, and even individuals who do NOT have CHLs may say, "Hey, I don't want to go to that business." Any negative implication that turns up on a simple google search is undesirable. It's no longer true that any publicity is good publicity.
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    Double Naught Spy

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    Stating things about how a business probably won't lose EVERY CHL carrier's business is likely accurate, but so what? The point is, there's a pool of self selected indivisuals who have these licenses and posting 30.06 MAY alienate them all. That's all the business needs to know, that hundreds of thousands of Texans may be alienated by their sign.

    Sorry, but with CHL holders making up less than 2% of the 21 and over population, there is no market in Texas where you have hundreds of thousands of CHL holders that will be affected by a 30.06 sign. Alienating those who aren't in your market isn't a business problem.
     

    Hoji

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    One can state that a business who posts 30.06 isn't necessarily doing to to infringe our 2A rights. If someone hits me in the head with a baseball bat because they don't like my ball cap, but don't intend to kill me, the result still may be my death. Likewise, they may not INTEND to infringe on my 2A rights, but they are. Ergo, I will boycott. Stating things about how a business probably won't lose EVERY CHL carrier's business is likely accurate, but so what? The point is, there's a pool of self selected indivisuals who have these licenses and posting 30.06 MAY alienate them all. That's all the business needs to know, that hundreds of thousands of Texans may be alienated by their sign. I believe that being listed on the 30.06 website is a larger deterrant to the business, because someone doing a google search of the business may find them on that list, and even individuals who do NOT have CHLs may say, "Hey, I don't want to go to that business." Any negative implication that turns up on a simple google search is undesirable. It's no longer true that any publicity is good publicity.
    So, do you boycott gun shows as well?
     

    Hoji

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    Since I don't have a CHL ( I have an Open Carry Permit), I rarely pay attention to such signs. This thread has me paying better attention. I will not patronize establishments that interfere with our 2nd Ammendment rights.


    The only people who can carry openly in Texas are LEO. None of the CHL law would apply to you anyway.
     

    Morgan

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    I've only been to 1 gunshow, actually, but I'm willing to make an exception for special events. I know that the guns shows are probably unable to get venues with insurance without posting. If someone could demonstrate to me that they can get venues without posting but continue to do so, I'd boycott those shows, yeah. But a guitar store doesn't need to post, as an example. You'd be hard pressed to show me that they're doing so for a legit reason.

    As for the small number of gun owners... Well, Taco Cabana has recently removed all 30.06 postings from their locations, after being listed on Texas3006.com - Your 30.06 Information Resource - Home. So you're going to need to give me some evidence to support your supposition when I have evidence that suggests my idea is correct. Sure, you're probably right that some small single business won't be overly negatively affected by alienating such a small segment...but the reality is that they WILL be affected to SOME degree. A loss of sales is a loss of sales. And people talk. If you alienate all the CHL holders in an area, and someone says, "Hey, lets go to X for Y purpose" and the CHL holder says, "No, I boycott that place" they have lost more business. You can't look simply at the raw numbers, you have to look at the repercussions.
     

    JKTex

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    The funny thing is, if we use that < 2% of 21+ as the number of CHL holders, what do you think the % is of businesses that post in accordance with 30.06? I'd guess < .02%.

    But look at the emotions that continue to pour out over the issue......at those numbers, can it really even be worthy of being called an "issue"?

    I don't say "infringement" because for example, to eliminate the ability of a business to restrict, however they see fit, the people who enter would be an infringement on their rights. What many of you argue is that your rights are more important than others rights. Aren't all of our rights equally important? If one person exercising their rights limits another person from exercising their rights, is there really any infringement?

    If you just disagree with their choice, let them know why. I'd bet that where 25% of 30.06 signs are posted, the business can't tell you why it is or they misunderstand what it is and does.
     

    SC-Texas

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    I do not spend money at any business that posts a 30.06 sign.

    I disagree, respectfully, with TXInvestigotor on this issue. They are anti-carry rights by posting that sign.

    One other issue that I have with the private property rights conundrum is that these businesses are not simply private property, they are open to the public.

    Texas law does not impose upon them a duty to protect me, my family , my friends or you when you enter their place of business except in the most limited circumstances.

    Therefore, my right to carry a handgun should trump their right to assert their private property rights to stop me from carrying unless they take full responsibility both legal and moral, for my safety.

    In fact, since you would likely have to leave the handgun at home (if this is an employer) or in your car (if a restaurant or a store), they should be responsible for your safety from the time you leave your home to the time you arrive back at home (Employer) or for the parking lot if a store.

    Seriously, I think this is a big part of the debate: Private Property rights v. the right to protect oneself.
     

    JKTex

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    One other issue that I have with the private property rights conundrum is that these businesses are not simply private property, they are open to the public.

    I won't debate the issue because you are looking at this with a biased view, but you are wrong. They are private property. They have the right to not disallow anyone, or everyone. The law just tells them that if they want to keep legally carried concealed handguns out, they have a responsibility to make that known. They can walk up and ask you to leave because they don't like the scent of the gum you're chewing. It's their right.

    I'll add, as I've said before, I'd bet the majority do not even know what that sign does or why they have it up. You would have to speak with a person responsible for the business and ask to find out. We are foolish to think the rampant foolishness that we see everyday does not exist in business as well.
     

    txinvestigator

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    I do not spend money at any business that posts a 30.06 sign.

    I disagree, respectfully, with TXInvestigotor on this issue. They are anti-carry rights by posting that sign.
    Welcome over SC. Good to see you here. I enjoy our lively conversations!.


    One other issue that I have with the private property rights conundrum is that these businesses are not simply private property, they are open to the public.

    Texas law does not impose upon them a duty to protect me, my family , my friends or you when you enter their place of business except in the most limited circumstances.

    Therefore, my right to carry a handgun should trump their right to assert their private property rights to stop me from carrying unless they take full responsibility both legal and moral, for my safety.
    Your "rights" as enumerated in the bill of rights relates to the government, do they not? They do not extend to other entities.

    For example, you have a "right" to freedom of speech. However, that does not apply to this website or my business or home. You say what the mods don't like here they can censor it and remove it.


    In fact, since you would likely have to leave the handgun at home (if this is an employer) or in your car (if a restaurant or a store), they should be responsible for your safety from the time you leave your home to the time you arrive back at home (Employer) or for the parking lot if a store.
    No, you can CHOOSE not to go there.

    Seriously, I think this is a big part of the debate: Private Property rights v. the right to protect oneself.
    I don't see that right in the Constitution. But I know what you mean. By banning handguns on private property you are not banned from the ability to portect yourself; you are only limited in the tool you can use.
     

    robocop10mm

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    The only people who can carry openly in Texas are LEO. None of the CHL law would apply to you anyway.

    Correct. The CHL laws do not apply to me, but I feel strongly abour the right for EVERYONE to defend them selves. If Joe Sh!t the Merchant does not want a CHL holder in his establishment then I don't want to be there either.
     

    txinvestigator

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    The only people who can carry openly in Texas are LEO. None of the CHL law would apply to you anyway.


    Or Armed Security Officers, or people carry while traveling, or people engaged in lawful fishing, hunting or other sporting activity in which a handgun is commonly used or traveling to or from, or is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces.

     

    SC-Texas

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    This gets us into where our right come from.

    Our rights do not come from thre constitution of hte United States.

    The "Bill of Rights" are not rights that the government gave to us, they are rights that We, as the people, the enbliners, WITHHELD from the government when we formed the government and defined its pwoers.

    These rights are inalienable.



    Now what are the basic rights that are fundamental to the human race?


    • Life (Self DEfense)- everyone is entitled to live once they are created.
    • Liberty- everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
    • Estate (Property) - everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights.
    This is why I have a problem with 30.06 signs. The stores are semi-public places (this is noted in Texas law by giving customers (Invitees) special rights, but the law protects the proerpty owner from liability for the criminal acts of others. Therefore, I do not believe that the private property rights of a Quasi Public-Priuvate property should trump my rights to self defense with the best tool available.
     

    txinvestigator

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    This gets us into where our right come from.

    Our rights do not come from thre constitution of hte United States.

    The "Bill of Rights" are not rights that the government gave to us, they are rights that We, as the people, the enbliners, WITHHELD from the government when we formed the government and defined its pwoers.

    These rights are inalienable.
    Yes, and they apply to the Government, not my place of business.
     

    SC-Texas

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    So what you are saying is that we, as individuals, do not have rights as amongst us (between individuals), but only rights as between the individual and the government?
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    beating-a-dead-horse.jpg
     

    TxEMTP69

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    Or Armed Security Officers, or people carry while traveling, or people engaged in lawful fishing, hunting or other sporting activity in which a handgun is commonly used or traveling to or from, or is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces.

    Just curious, but I thought that the law stated while traveling the weapon must be concealed...

    so This is a question, must it be concealed or in the open or does it matter? thank you in advannce
     

    TxEMTP69

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    No, the law does not state that.

    See Penal Code section 46.15 (b).
    I know i read somewhere (not saying it was correct) about it having to be concealed now I'm on a mission to find it, so I can see wtf I was reading. by the way, the penal code is a pain to read, I did alot of scrolling here as to find out what 46.15(b)

    Thank you for the reference.
     
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