51% sign question

[Renegade]

It isn't ignorance of the law; it is that the sign is not visible to customers where it's posted.

It is ignorance of the law, as you think there must be a visible sign or you are legal.

Were you asleep in class or was your instructor ignorant too? This has been the law the whole time...

 

[Sam7sf]

Just use a quarter....

Use my pecker but that would be breaking the law too.

 

[Charlie]

Some of you are trying to find ways of getting around a law by convincing yourselves there is something not done correctly by the establishment. Usually a judge will not "think" like you want him/her to think. Good luck.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Use my pecker but that would be breaking the law too.

Too, as in also?

 

[Axxe55]

It is ignorance of the law, as you think there must be a visible sign or you are legal.

Were you asleep in class or was your instructor ignorant too? This has been the law the whole time...

In defense of @GeorgeS he did state it was a new place.

If the establishment had been there for some time or many years, a reasonable person should be able to conclude what the income was derived from, but a new place? Was it a burger joint that sold beer to go with your burger and fries, or a straight up beer joint?

 

[Sam7sf]

Too, as in also?

Because taking out your pecker in public is an an office and you would be arrested. Gosh my sense of humor is terribly dark today.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Because taking out your pecker in public is an an office and you would be arrested. Gosh my sense of humor is terribly dark today.

The way it was worded, it seemed you said using a quarter to check the height was illegal.
I understood the rest as being humor.

 

[GeorgeS]

I won't be going back so I'm not trying to get around the law.

My concern is that you might patronize an establishment that isn't obviously a '51%' (like a BJ's Restaurant) while carrying, and there's a sign where you might not see it.

 

[Sam7sf]

The way it was worded, it seemed you said using a quarter to check the height was illegal.
I understood the rest as being humor.

All of my post in this thread have been humor.

 

[Renegade]

In defense of @GeorgeS he did state it was a new place.

New place or old place does not matter. He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. His mistake is in his first sentence of his first post:

"As I understand it, you may not carry a firearm in an establishment with a 51% sign posted."

It is frustrating how so many folks can get simple things like this wrong. I would hate to see someone get jammed up, but at the end of the day you own your actions. Dont carry until you know the laws. If you were taught incorrectly, those Instructors need to be called out. We all need to have each others backs on the law.

If the establishment had been there for some time or many years, a reasonable person should be able to conclude what the income was derived from, but a new place? Was it a burger joint that sold beer to go with your burger and fries, or a straight up beer joint?

If it is a brand new place, then it is on YOU, the LTC to verify if you can legally enter armed. Here is the link again:

Public Inquiry System | TABC

Home page for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission

apps.tabc.texas.gov

 

[Sam7sf]

New place or old place does not matter. He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. His mistake is in his first sentence of his first post:

"As I understand it, you may not carry a firearm in an establishment with a 51% sign posted."

It is frustrating how so many folks can get simple things like this wrong. I would hate to see someone get jammed up, but at the end of the day you own your actions. Dont carry until you know the laws. If you were taught incorrectly, those Instructors need to be called out. We all need to have each others backs on the law.



If it is a brand new place, then it is on YOU, the LTC to verify if you can legally enter armed. Here is the link again:

Public Inquiry System | TABC

Home page for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission

apps.tabc.texas.gov

Yes. Ultimately this is the correct response. More people need to read laws. I often don’t get involved with threads about legal gun matters because when I read something for myself then read comments online I’m often too mentally drained to try. I’m bored at work and couldn’t help myself today.

 

[cycleguy2300]

As I understand it, you may not carry a firearm in an establishment with a 51% sign posted.

I was enjoying a beer on the patio of a place that had no signage at the door or on the patio. A friend later informed me that their only sign is posted inside, behind the bar. You do not have to walk through the bar to get to the patio, and they have servers handling orders.

If the '51%' is not visible from the patio, would it be unlawful to carry on the patio?

51% covers the entire premise, and as defined by TABC the premise is the entire property, not just building.

However, a number of places mistakenly or deceptively post a 51% sign whe in fact it is incorrect, check TABC's website and find the listed business and confirm the sign is in fact the correct one.

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[cycleguy2300]

Because taking out your pecker in public is an an office and you would be arrested. Gosh my sense of humor is terribly dark today.

Only if someone was offended or it aroused you or another... but how could they be offended if they can't see it

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[Grumps21]

Well even if it were not a 51% establishment, it would lend even more scrutiny should the person need to exercise his or her 2A right and it was found that even one drink was consumed prior to the event. Myself, I rarely drink outside of the house for that very reason. Maybe I’m just paranoid....

But like others have noted, ignorance of the law is no defense. The OP already stated he knew that so he is covered on that front. True the sign should be in a conspicuous place, but it’s my understanding that in Itself, is not a defense. If 9 out of 10 people in the joint are only drinking and have no food, or has hours that might follow those of 51% place then a reasonable person should at least assume it’s 51%, or at least ask. If there are equal parts or more eating, maybe kids in attendance and have hours that would mirror something like a restaurant, and no 51% sign, then a reasonable person might assume it is ok. This is my interpretation of the law

 

[no2gates]

As I understand it, you may not carry a firearm in an establishment with a 51% sign posted.

I was enjoying a beer on the patio of a place that had no signage at the door or on the patio. A friend later informed me that their only sign is posted inside, behind the bar. You do not have to walk through the bar to get to the patio, and they have servers handling orders.

If the '51%' is not visible from the patio, would it be unlawful to carry on the patio?

I thought the law stated you can't *enter* blah, blah, blah. If you're on the patio, aren't you *technically* not entering?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

You have entered their property.
Which is 51%.

 

[Axxe55]

Curious question. Who determines whether an establishment is a 51% business? TABC, or the establisment?

 

[Renegade]

Curious question. Who determines whether an establishment is a 51% business? TABC, or the establisment?

LOL

See TXI #7

51% Sign

I was in a restaurant the other day and this time I noticed they had a 51% sign behind the counter. What made this strange, at least to me, is that they sell very little alcohol. So my question is, Can they post a 51% sign even if they meet the 51% in alcohol sells? Thanks

www.texasguntalk.com

on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

 

[etmo]

Curious question. Who determines whether an establishment is a 51% business? TABC, or the establisment?

Sec. 104.06. MONITORING OF GROSS RECEIPTS. (a) On the issuance and renewal of a license or permit that allows on-premises consumption of any alcoholic beverage the commission shall determine whether the holder receives, or for the issuance of a license or permit is to receive, 51 percent or more of the gross receipts of the premises for which the license or permit is issued from the holder's sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption.

(b) The commission shall:

(1) adopt rules for making a determination under Subsection (a); and

(2) require a holder of a license or permit to provide any information or document that the commission needs to make a determination.

(c) If the commission makes a determination under Subsection (a) that a holder of a license or permit receives 51 percent or more of the gross receipts of the premises from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages, the holder shall comply with the requirements of Section 411.204, Government Code, and shall continue to comply with those requirements until the commission determines that the holder receives less than 51 percent of the gross receipts of the premises from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I thought the law stated you can't *enter* blah, blah, blah. If you're on the patio, aren't you *technically* not entering?

30.06/7 uses a different "premise" from what TABC uses for 51% premises.


Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code 11.49
Premises Defined;  Designation of Licensed Premises
(a) In this code, “premises” means the grounds and all buildings, vehicles, and appurtenances pertaining to the grounds, including any adjacent premises if they are directly or indirectly under the control of the same person.

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