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9-29-2020 debate/toddnjoyce commentary thread.

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  • Younggun

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    Looked to me like he was fully expecting it. He jumped right out with a great answer:

    TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

    Where he seemed caught off guard was Wallace suggesting Proud Boys were a WSG when he was probably expecting KKK or Aryan Nation to be named.

    PB from what I have seen is not a WSG, but a Nationalist group. They have black and Hispanic members and have supported minorities like Michelle Malkin.

    Proud Boys are absolutely not a racist organization. They went through a rough patch where they had to clean out some people, mostly anti-semites convinced the Jews were out to get them. But they’ve always been extremely inclusive when it came to race and even more so after realizing they had some garbage in the house and took it out.

    They are “Western Chauvinists”.


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    toddnjoyce

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    ... Where he seemed caught off guard was Wallace suggesting Proud Boys were a WSG when he was probably expecting KKK or Aryan Nation to be named....
    That was a one of several low blows by Wallace. His apparent tactic for the questions was get Trump to backtrack on anything/everything while giving Biden only softball opportunities to pitch the platform.

    Having said that incumbents general suck at their first debate because it’s the first time they’ve done it in four years while the opponent spent the previous six months practicing.

    What would have been brilliant for Trump would have been to reframe every answer to “You’ve got a choice; keep making America great or choose whatever horrible commie/racist/green/shitty option that Biden is pushing and over to you Joe to talk tour way out of that. He tried a couple of times, but never really exploited it fully, probably because he realized too late that it was a 2v1 fight.
     

    CyberWolf

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    Saw almost the whole thing, and I'll just say this:

    The fact of it having been a shit-show is beyond dispute, but what truly precipitated that, IMHO is the (expected) bullshit biased moderation...

    Lots of comments about President Trump acting aggressivly, etc., and how it was so bad/rude/mean/etc. (pick from the wheel-o-gripes), but what I saw was him fighting the good fight...

    Sure, there's always opportunity for improvement, but the worst thing he could possibly have done would have been to appear weak - Had he stood there and kept his mouth shut, meekly following the obvious path of bullshit that Wallace kept laying out along with his two-faced lectures, that would have been an incredible show of weakness. He owned both of them (hilariously in a few instances) - bullshit that it had to be done that way, but necessary under the circumstances...
     
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    TX OMFS

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    It was a dumpster fire and Trump was aggressive. You know what, though? He's fighting for our country and western civilization. He's fighting against communism, socialism, and unrestrained hedonism - the very ideas Biden and Wallace represent. Of course he's pissed. He's taking the bullets and, aside from his rallies, never gets to see appreciation. In some ways I think it's a good look for him.

    The problem is all the people who get uncomfortable with straight, blunt talk. They can't get passed the idea that Trump is mean to listen to the ideas and arguments. How many times has a disagreement with your wife turned into a discussion about your tone of voice, facial expressions, etc and not about the real issue at hand?

    If Trump was more Reagenesque it would help. Calm, reasoned, humorous, and throw out some zingers.
     
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    Younggun

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    That was a one of several low blows by Wallace. His apparent tactic for the questions was get Trump to backtrack on anything/everything while giving Biden only softball opportunities to pitch the platform.

    Having said that incumbents general suck at their first debate because it’s the first time they’ve done it in four years while the opponent spent the previous six months practicing.

    What would have been brilliant for Trump would have been to reframe every answer to “You’ve got a choice; keep making America great or choose whatever horrible commie/racist/green/shitty option that Biden is pushing and over to you Joe to talk tour way out of that. He tried a couple of times, but never really exploited it fully, probably because he realized too late that it was a 2v1 fight.

    If he wasn’t expecting a 2V1 fight he’s really starting to slip.


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    MacZC7

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    It was a dumpster fire and Trump was aggressive. You know what, though? He's fighting for our country and western civilization. He's fighting the people Biden and Wallace represent. Of course he's pissed. He's taking the bullets and, aside from his rallies, never gets to see appreciation. In some ways I think it's a good look for him.

    The problem is all the people who get uncomfortable with straight, blunt talk. They can't get passed the idea that Trump is mean to listen to the ideas and arguments. How many times has a disagreement with your wife turned into a discussion about your tone of voice, facial expressions, etc and not about the real issue at hand?

    If Trump was more Reagenesque it would help. Calm, reasoned, humorous, and through out some zingers.
    Yes men don’t get shit done, that’s why Trump has been an outstanding president. Just like bratty kids, the leftist mob doesn’t like authority and want the system to be set up in their favor so they can continue all their lying and scheming. Trump is to democrats as kryptonite is to Superman.
     

    TipBledsoe

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    It was a disappointing debate overall.
    No obvious winner because it was just a sh#% storm instead of a debate.
    And as the London Times said; the clear loser was the American people.
     

    FireInTheWire

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    Watched some highlights. Cringe factor a easy 16 on a scale of 1-10. I'm voting for Trump because he is doing right with policies and his 1st mate is a Godly man. But, he needs to work on this.

    Reminded me of these 2 guys
    Grumpier Old Men Serious GIF - GrumpierOldMen Serious What GIFs
     

    PeoplePhobic

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    I think Trump won that debate. I also think it kind of sucked to watch. I think Trump interrupted Biden too much though. If he would have let him talk more it would have put his dementia on display. For example when Biden went on about equity and equality as if the two concepts compliment each other when they are quite mutually exclusive.

    I think there were several key victories from Trump but I doubt it will have an effect. I think he managed to get Biden to distance himself from the Sander's crowd and the radical left with the comments on Medicare for all and the green new deal. Anyone who has noticed the (I dunno) 100 or more days of riots and stuff might have a problem with Biden saying Antifa is only an idea.

    I also thought the point that Trump made about him appointing so many justices, and the Obama admin leaving so many vacancies was perhaps even more important.

    I didn't really see where Biden got any wins that would convince anyone who isn't just going to vote "orange man bad".

    I'm noticing that the MSM wants to cancel the next two debates now. I don't think they'd be throwing this out there if they really thought Biden won.

    It was pretty annoying to watch though I'll probably just wait till the next one gets uploaded to YouTube so I can watch it at 1.5-2x speed.
     

    Dougw1515

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    Looked to me like he was fully expecting it. He jumped right out with a great answer:

    TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

    Where he seemed caught off guard was Wallace suggesting Proud Boys were a WSG when he was probably expecting KKK or Aryan Nation to be named.

    PB from what I have seen is not a WSG, but a Nationalist group. They have black and Hispanic members and have supported minorities like Michelle Malkin.
    Agreed... Though not readily apparent my original comment was with regards to the PB reaction.
     

    Axxe55

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    I think the question was asked in way to trip up Trump on white supremacist groups, as to infer the Proud Boys group was aligned with white supremacist groups.

    It was a very confusing question, and I think they got the reaction they wanted.

    It's also possible, that Trump isn't familiar with the Proud Boys group, and was at a loss as to how to answer the question.

    Just an opinion and observation.
     

    MacZC7

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    Biden fell into a few blatantly obvious traps DJT set if you can filter through all the bickering. The whole debate was unprofessional on all sides. I think Biden should sit the next two out and let Wallace and Trump go at it. The bias is unreal.
     

    Younggun

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    I think the question was asked in way to trip up Trump on white supremacist groups, as to infer the Proud Boys group was aligned with white supremacist groups.

    It was a very confusing question, and I think they got the reaction they wanted.

    It's also possible, that Trump isn't familiar with the Proud Boys group, and was at a loss as to how to answer the question.

    Just an opinion and observation.

    The question was framed to imply that the right wing is responsible for 3 months of riots, fires, and looting in leftist cities. It was akin to “Will you denounce spousal abuse, and will you stop beating your wife?”


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    Axxe55

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    The question was framed to imply that the right wing is responsible for 3 months of riots, fires, and looting in leftist cities. It was akin to “Will you denounce spousal abuse, and will you stop beating your wife?”


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    Exactly. I think it was a question framed as a trick question, that would be a "damned if he did, or damned if he didn't" .
     

    Younggun

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    Still could have answered better though. He flubbed it biggly.


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