9mm bullet weight effect on recoil

[seeker_two]

After trying different ammo, I really like the Winchester Train 147gr ammo. The recoil is comfortable to me.

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[gshayd]

9mm has recoil?

 

[Charlie]

9mm has recoil?

 

[DoubleDuty]

After trying different ammo, I really like the Winchester Train 147gr ammo. The recoil is comfortable to me.

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I use the Winchester Defend for self defense. I like the heavier bullet. Don't use the Train ammo cause it costs more than Blazer Brass or cheaper brass. I just shoot my defend ammo every so often it shoots great and the penetration tests on it are outstanding.

 

[seeker_two]

I use the Winchester Defend for self defense. I like the heavier bullet. Don't use the Train ammo cause it costs more than Blazer Brass or cheaper brass. I just shoot my defend ammo every so often it shoots great and the penetration tests on it are outstanding.

I like the Train because I don't have to shoot any of my Defend to keep in practice. But I do use the cheap stuff for range fun. I also keep the Train rounds in my spare reloads in case I have to punch a hole through something in order to put a hole in a perp.

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[benenglish]

Since Cam has pointed a newbie here I assume this thread will start up again. I figured I might as well be first.

I can tell you when it comes to factory ammo in the big boomers (44 Magnum, 500 S&W, etc.) the lighter bullets generally have higher recoil. Much higher.

I think a definition of terms is usually lacking in these discussions.

For example, back when I was a teen, some gun writers were pushing their idea of a "Standard Controllability Test."

The test was 5 shots in 5 seconds at 5 yards, starting from low ready and keeping all shots in a 5 inch circle. I couldn't do it with my Model 29 using 240 grain factory ammo. It kicked enough to break my wrist so that I was fighting to bring the muzzle back from pointing at the sky.

However, I could do it with the 170 grain factory ammo.

With the light bullets, the revolver would move straight back a greater distance but my wrist didn't break. That meant I could fire the revolver and get a proper hit even if I was in the middle of pushing it back to firing position. (I was shooting from an exaggerated Weaver position with both elbows very bent.)

It seems to me that recoil is an easily and precisely quantifiable number.

But the perception of recoil, the complex interplay of gun design and physical technique, renders those numbers essentially meaningless.

What works for one person doesn't for another. Only experience with a given combination of gun and ammo can help anyone understand what works for them. (This assumes we're talking of comparable cases, not, for example, a .22lr vs a .357 mag.)

Figuring out which 9mm kicks more than another is something that can only be decided by an individual person using the ammo in their particular gun and making the decision for themselves and no one else.

At least that's my opinion.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Looks like the newbie has been a member for 10 years.

 

[DoubleDuty]

That would be lurker status I guess.

 

[TipBledsoe]

My simple mind likes to think about it in a simple way:

Think of the firearm as a mild pipe bomb. The pipe bomb has a cap on one end that has a mass of one pound and a cap on the other end that has a mass of only 140 grains. Neither caps are screwed onto the pipe; they just slip on.

When the pipe bomb’s mild charge ignites, it doesn’t explode because the caps at either end are not threaded and screwed on; the caps just loosely slip on the ends of the pipe. But both caps get propelled away from the pipe.

The propellant applies the same amount of force to both caps, but the 140 grain cap gets propelled at a very much greater velocity than the one pound cap because one pound cap is 50x heavier. The slower velocity of the one pound cap is the recoil.

Now it is easy to imagine the effect of an increased charge, without changing the mass of the caps. The force applied to both caps will be greater, but be proportionally the same, resulting in greater recoil.

Alternately it is also easy to imagine the effect of increasing the mass of the lighter cap. But first take it to extreme; imagine both caps have the same mass and the force of the recoil will be far greater. So, a heavier bullet will increase recoil, as will a lighter firearm.

With getting these basic ideas out of the way, it makes it easier to understand the effect of changing two variables; the bullet weight and the powder charge… The recoil effect can increase just as easily as it can decrease, or it may not even change at all. But the greatest effect upon increased recoil should result mainly from the extremity of the total charge equation as it nears maximum pressure levels, assuming the same firearm used with various loads.

Sorry for getting so windy. Feel free to poo-poo my simple way of looking at this.

 

[kbaxter60]

That would be lurker status I guess.

Or an oldie but a newbie.

 

[reddog]

Or an oldie but a newbie.

I like this one best I was raised that you learn more by listening than speaking so I guess I lurk a lot, but even after 50 years of shooting there are things I need to ask questions about and the crew here is good enough to answer them for me!

 

[benenglish]

I sincerely apologize for the newbie crack. I don't know how I could have lost track like that but I did and I'm sorry.

 

[S13]

Recoil is a totality of bullet, powder, powder load, grip angle as well as how well you can grip it, barrel angle to your hand and arm and how high above the hand the barrel is and angle of the wrist.....
And probably several other factors. Never seen anyone with a formula to figure it out. What feels great to one person may feel terrible to others.

Only way I know of is to shoot it and decide for yourself.

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Very much the above.


And the 365 is a very nice recoiling pistol for its size.

 

[deemus]

Very much the above.


And the 365 is a very nice recoiling pistol for its size.

I would add that the more you shoot it the easier it becomes to shoot.

I think it’s a combination of becoming more at ease/proficient in shooting it. But also I think those very stiff sprngs begin to loosen up just a bit.

The first 200 rounds was at times a bit uncomfortable. But now after 409ish rounds it seems a little less stiff. And more comfortable to shoot.

I’ve seen some for sale here and I’m guessing they had the same experience. But gave up before the gun loosened up a bit.

Mine is a regular in my edc carry rotation.

 

[reddog]

I sincerely apologize for the newbie crack. I don't know how I could have lost track like that but I did and I'm sorry.

No need to apologize, gave me a smile first thing in the morning, and I would never complain about that!

 

[sparkyv]

I've heard both sides of the argument, and I'm not sure what to think. The math says that lighter bullets result in lower recoil energy; there's no doubt about that, see my data below. But in reality, I just can't tell the difference in felt recoil in my experiments. This dataset is from the same handgun (a rather heavy one), comparing bullet weight at the same velocity for a 40S&W set and a 10mm set. I think I'm rather recoil insensitive; I can't tell the difference between 115, 124, and 135 grainers in my P365.

 

[Dawico]

I've heard both sides of the argument, and I'm not sure what to think. The math says that lighter bullets result in lower recoil energy; there's no doubt about that, see my data below. But in reality, I just can't tell the difference in felt recoil in my experiments. This dataset is from the same handgun (a rather heavy one), comparing bullet weight at the same velocity for a 40S&W set and a 10mm set. I think I'm rather recoil insensitive; I can't tell the difference between 115, 124, and 135 grainers in my P365.

View attachment 434077

Your data is flawed. Why does the velocity go up with bullet weight? That is generally not the case and is skewing your results.

Changes in recoil get more noticable as the size and power of the round increases. Try a real magnum and you'll see a big difference in full power loads as bullet weight changes.

 

[sparkyv]

The velocity is the same within each set well within measurement error, but I show a 40S&W dataset on the left and a 10mm set on the right. I've chosen different powders to provide the desired velocities.

Does a 460S&W Mag count as a "real magnum"? Even with my M460V I struggle to actually "feel" a difference in recoil from varying the projectile weights at constant velocity. For me, felt recoil is only perceived with drastically different velocities, not from different projectile weights.

Your data is flawed. Why does the velocity go up with bullet weight? That is generally not the case and is skewing your results.

Changes in recoil get more noticable as the size and power of the round increases. Try a real magnum and you'll see a big difference in full power loads as bullet weight changes.

 

[Dawico]

For me, felt recoil is only perceived with drastically different velocities, not from different projectile weights.

This is what I was saying. Velocity is a bigger factor in recoil than bullet weight. Lighter bullets can be shot way faster (safely) than heavier bullets.

Most factory ammo is loaded close to safe max velocity so you'll feel more recoil with factory loaded lighter bullets than heavier ones.