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9mm Carbine Rifle thoughts...

Discussion in 'Rifles' started by Reelthrill, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. diesel1959

    diesel1959 por vida Lifetime Member

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    To me, a "carbine" is a rifle (even a longer SBR) with a barrel between 14.5" and 16" or so. If it's a pistol (with less than a 14.5" barrel), it's not a carbine. Not dissin' on pistol-caliber pistols, but it can't be a pistol caliber carbine unless it's a carbine. Just my dos centavos.

    EDIT: Traditionally, rifles had longer--MUCH longer than 16"--barrels and were quite unwieldy to use in many settings. So, if you think about an old-school rifle with a barrel of 22" to 24", then the term "carbine" being used for versions that were a good bit shorter than that, things start to make more sense. Carbines are rifles, but rifles with shorter (I specify 14.5" to 16", because the M4 is considered a carbine, and it has a 14.5" barrel).
     


    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
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  2. CyberWolf

    CyberWolf Member

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    Keep in mind that the terms 'Carbine', 'Rifle', 'Pistol', etc. can have multiple definitions depending on context...

    For example, In the case of Direct Gas Impingement firearms (e.g. AR10/15, M4, etc.), the terms are most commonly used as an indicator of Gas System Lenth. You could have a 24" bbl 'Pistol' (gas) (just presented as example; likely no reason for this to exist), or a 16" bbl "Rifle" with Rifle-length gas (uncommon; higher chance of functional/reliability issues due to insufficient dwell time), and 'Pistols' having additional legal context based on reciever markings/transfer method and/or design/features (or a DI system with gas port at 4").

    The M4 'Carbine' is called that due to having a Carbine-length gas system which places the gas port at 7" down the bbl, with another 7.5" of effective dwell time for the gas impulse.

    Other weapon platforms use the term differently (e.g. M1 Carbine, Ruger PCC, Bolt Rifles, etc.).

    Given that most PCCs/9mm AR's are going to he direct/delayed blowback (with some exceptions; MPX for example is short-stroke piston and is a beast w/ either 3.5" or 4.5" bbl), I'm not sure if the terms Carbine vs Rifle can really be used 'definitively' in this case, beyond just general reference (or marketing) terms based on weapon size & barrel profile...
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  3. benenglish

    benenglish Lifetime Supporter Staff Member Lifetime Member Admin

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    Trying to understand a definitive PCC taxonomy makes my head hurt. I have one so I have some interest in the subject but I still can't put everything in order in my head.
     
  4. Younggun

    Younggun Doer of Deeds TGT Supporter Admin

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    PCC or no?

    0bfd5e4bb83e4f0776aed699dd2728f1.jpg

    Can’t be an SMG because the fun parts in the bang switch don’t brrrrrrrt.


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  5. Moonpie

    Moonpie TGT Addict Lifetime Member

    I would say Yeah its a carbine because it can be shoulder fired. Just my own definition.
    F/A not really a requirement.
     
  6. Younggun

    Younggun Doer of Deeds TGT Supporter Admin

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    That is where I go with it. But above there was mention of pistols based on barrel length grouped in with the rifle/carbine discussion.

    I only pointed out non F/A to avoid any incorrect SMG classification or giving anyone the impression I was cool like Grumper.

    IMO, I tend to look at anything 16-18” barrel or less and shoulder fired as a carbine.

    Of course it can be further confused by AR stocks being sold with fixed stocks designated as “rifle” and collapsible stocks as “carbine”. Not sure where that started though.

    Really never worried about it before this thread. Not a big deal to me, especially while we have people running around saying “clip” when they really mean magazine.


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  7. Younggun

    Younggun Doer of Deeds TGT Supporter Admin

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    Pretty sure all carbines are rifles, but not all rifles are carbines. Unless you have a smooth bore carbine of course.


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  8. DD130

    DD130 Active Member

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    What kind/brand/model?
     
  9. Pops1955

    Pops1955 Member

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    I have several pistol/revolver carbine pairs.

    WHAT I GOT:

    Glock 23 paired with a Kel-Tex sub-2000 .40 -- my favorite since i carry the 23 daily now and keep the sub folded in the B.O.B. in the truck.

    Have a Marlin 1894 in .357 paired with a Colt Peace Maker SA .357 -- my western nod.

    Have a Ruger P95 paired with an older (2006) PC 9 Carbine -- A LOT of FUN and just keeps on running. Both are built like tanks and shoot very well.

    Have a PX 4 Storm in .45 paired with a Cx 4 Storm. -- also a lot of fun BUT my least favorite.

    WHAT I WANT TO GET:

    New Ruger PC 9 paired with a Ruger American -- the breakdown feature make this on attractive for my B.O.B.

    I want a Marlin Camp .45 to Pair with my 1911.

    and I want to buy a Magnum Research BFR 45-70 to pair with my Marlin Stainless 45-70 Trapper

    WHAT I DO NOT WANT:

    Just me, i do not see the point in an AR frame in any pistol caliber
     
  10. diesel1959

    diesel1959 por vida Lifetime Member

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    It's a semi-auto version of a subgun, but it's not a carbine. The UZI carbine has a 16" barrel. By the same token, semi-auto HK clones of the MP5 and MP5K are not carbines. They're semi-auto versions of a subgun. Whether you use a stabilizing brace, or go the route of Form 1 and make an SBR, it's not a carbine. At least not in my book.
     


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