A man was training to get a gun permit. The instructor accidentally shot him, police say

[stdreb27]

Trigger pull test sounds like a desk pop to me.

 

[candcallen]

I wonder if the student made a furtive move?





Too soon?


Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[Bithabus]

Applicants take an IQ test. One case is well known I am sure it can be googled

In most cases they do not. I've never heard of it. I would bet you today no agencies do that.

 

[Sublime]

In most cases they do not. I've never heard of it. I would bet you today no agencies do that.

Never heard of an IQ test. They let me in so I guess I was stupid enough. Most had some type of written test but it didn't measure your IQ. The written exam for the Mid Cities agency were a mutha. Most written exams were not an issue. Some of the Psychological tests were BS and the review board was where the remainder was culled. I think there were around 80 for my test with 5 slots opened. We lost one in the academy and one in FT. Of course that was early 90's so I dunno how they do it now but highly doubt an IQ test was added.

 

[candcallen]

Yep every test I took was basic high school graduate general knowledge. Maybe some common sense stuff and a couple places told you to study certain unrestricted policies for comprehension testing. The rest had policies or proceedures in the test for comprehension. They all had some sort of observation skills testing. A picture the displayed on the overhead for a few seconds or a skit where someone or group busted on acting like they were fighting or some other scenario. They then had to answer questions or report in writing what happened.

The physch eval was always 2 or 3 tests. One of them was always the MMPI.
Link
https://psychcentral.com/lib/minnesota-multiphasic-personality-inventory-mmpi/

The others were a shorter test of the same type. About half the time you meet with a psychologist after the scores it then or later. The rest didnt have an actual eval by a dr other that scoring and reporting the test resuults.

 

[Hoji]

I guess locking the slide back is too tough of a concept for a Californian “firearms instructor”

 

[benenglish]

Yep every test I took was basic high school graduate general knowledge.

That's an IQ test...or, at least, it can be. An IQ test is just a abstract knowledge test (which can be general knowledge) where your results are plotted against what people your age, on average, know.

I'm guessing lots of people have taken IQ tests without realizing they were taking IQ tests.

 

[MTA]

I wonder if they will lose their job and be held criminally liable like any of us civilians would be if we had done something that negligent

 

[TheMailMan]

What was the bar for IQ being too high?

The higher the IQ the more likely they are to get bored with the mundane tasks required by the job.

Kind of like having an ASVAB score of 99 and being an 03XX in the Marines.

 

[candcallen]

That's an IQ test...or, at least, it can be. An IQ test is just a abstract knowledge test (which can be general knowledge) where your results are plotted against what people your age, on average, know.

I'm guessing lots of people have taken IQ tests without realizing they were taking IQ tests.

IQ tests are generally abstract problem solving tests. At least all the ones I ever took. YMMV. The law Enforcement written/entrance tests were always explained as seeing if you have the foundation of knowledge needed to successfully learn to do the job along with reading comprehension and minimally accepted observation skills to be successful.

I guess your right, at least concerning parts of the testing anyways, it a distinction without a difference. Really more so in parts of the physch testing I would say.

 

[candcallen]

I guess locking the slide back is too tough of a concept for a Californian “firearms instructor”

Not just California firearms instructors, I was acting as range officer in a qualls session another firearms instructor was running and at the end of a string, it was the first year we switched to Glock from S&W revolvers so it was all new. I was walking down from one end and he was from the other making sure everyone dropped the mag BEFORE racking the slide and I hear BANG. SHIT GOD DAMN IT and watched as a new G17 hits the ground. The instructor went off script and tried to conduct a remeadal weapons handling class during quals and blew a nice 9mm hole in his hand.

Being the caring and understanding guy I am I I hollered Dude I thought you said you completed your manual of arms certs. That is dont put hands in the spontaneous amputation zone. Ya they didn't laugh either


Then you had idiots he just supposedly taught moving forward and back off the line while it was still hot and with unclear weapons, unholsterd too, wondering who shot who and who's next. Think key stone cop skit.

I holler calm the phuck down and quit moving the line is still hot. I removed everyone who violated safety rules and sent them back to retraining and dealt with the wound. He must have been living right cause the bullet went thru the palm and missed every bone muscle ligament and tendon.

The officer he was making clear racked the slide before dropping the mag and he saw this and stopped him trying to walk him thru the process with a loaded weapon and in frustration took the weapon to clear it. Not paying attention had his hand in the amputation zone and finger slipped onto the trigger.

Loose respect, dont follow rules and you spring leaks

 

[alias]

The officer was sent for more training.

When I was taking my CHL class and the former sheriff's deputy was inspecting people's guns before the quals phase, he locked the slide back on my 1911. I thought "No, no, no, no!" and then of course the dumbf*** dropped it on an empty chamber on my Virgil Tripp trigger job. I cringed and made a face.
To maintain face, he looked at the pinned grip safety and said "You know you safeties broke?' I told him it was pinned. He said the gun had to have all the safeties working. I had to go out to my truck and retrieve my truck gun to finish the class. He would loved to have a reason to fail me.

 

[benenglish]

the dumbf*** dropped it on an empty chamber on my Virgil Tripp trigger job

That's right up there with cocking the hammer, only, on a proper 1911 bullseye trigger job. Or, so I've heard; personally, I know nothing about 1911s.

He said the gun had to have all the safeties working.

Any LTC instructors want to comment on this? Is there anything in the law or regs that requires no one use a firearm that has had any safety device disabled? Or was the instructor for the class alias took just pulling this right out of his posterior?

 

[V-Tach]

I don't about regs or law, but when I inspect a pistol and it has a safety, it must function properly, or I won't let them use it. Purely from a liability standpoint, I wouldn't think it wise to allow them to qualify with it......

 

[Sublime]

Maybe Alias "former deputy" was one for a reason? Throw in the "civilian" instructor for this story and maybe we should rail against civilians with terrible gun handling procedures and be a bit more picky about where we get our training, LTC or otherwise. I have seen some crappy handling by students but really can not remember a snafu from any of my range officers or instructors, LEOs or civilians.


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[benenglish]

I won't let them use it

How far do you take that? Two examples:

1. If someone pulls out a magazine disconnect safety, something not visible from the outside, is that disqualifying?
2. What's the difference between a pinned 1911 grip safety and a 1911 frame that simply doesn't have a grip safety? Since they are functionally identical, how would one be disqualifying and the other not?

 

[benenglish]

I don't about regs or law, but when I inspect a pistol

That's another thing - Is there anything in the law or regs that requires an LTC instructor to inspect the firearms used by students? There are classes where such inspections definitely do not happen.

 

[birddog]

View attachment 182727

I jus check out muh guun fo boolits.

Seen something similar hunting ducks out of a boat years ago. Not nearly as graphic though, his foot was still in the boot.

Never understood why some folks insist on holding their shotgun muzzle down on the top of their foot.

Regarding the agency IQ requirements, I’ve heard from several reputable sources that it’s due to the propensity of high IQ trainees bailing during or shortly after their probationary status ends.

 

[Sledge]

Trigger pull test? What a stupid concept.

 

[Younggun]

Trigger pull test? What a stupid concept.

Ever hear of a clearing drum?


We used to use them in the military. After an idiot failed to properly clear his weapon properly and fired a round in to one they changed SOP to no longer drop the hammer after clearing.


They effectively changed the rule so that instead of the round going to a drum full of sand it would remain chambered while someone who couldn’t properly clear their weapon wondered around the DFAC or other facility.


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