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Abilene TX: man killed in conflict over trash

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  • vmax

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    You take your chances with a jury. Sounds like the video caught some of, but not all the encounter.

    Wonder if someone felt the father, at 72, should have known better than to start a fight with a hotheaded neighbor.
    Thats an excellent point
    With the witness for the state saying that Howard took a swing THEN the father shot, it seems to be self defense
    And all the orher witnesses including law enforcement saying Howard was violent and threatening..
    I'd like know the stats on the jury..male female, age that sort of thing.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Thats an excellent point
    With the witness for the state saying that Howard took a swing THEN the father shot, it seems to be self defense
    And all the orher witnesses including law enforcement saying Howard was violent and threatening..
    I'd like know the stats on the jury..male female, age that sort of thing.

    What does TPC 9 say about self defense as a justification if you start the fight? Maybe we’re all focused on the bat and the jury wasn’t.

    I could also make the case the son was justified in defense of a third person once the bat was introduced based on disparity of force.

    All I’ve seen/read on this is what was in the Big Country Times this week. Haven’t seem the video and despite what was in the paper, acknowledge we don’t know the impact opening and closing statements and jury instructions had in persuading the jury that *somebody* had to be held accountable.
     

    Axxe55

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    What does TPC 9 say about self defense as a justification if you start the fight? Maybe we’re all focused on the bat and the jury wasn’t.

    I could also make the case the son was justified in defense of a third person once the bat was introduced based on disparity of force.

    All I’ve seen/read on this is what was in the Big Country Times this week. Haven’t seem the video and despite what was in the paper, acknowledge we don’t know the impact opening and closing statements and jury instructions had in persuading the jury that *somebody* had to be held accountable.
    EXACTLY!YOU CAN'T INSTIGATE OR ESCALATE THE CONFLICT ANTHEN USE SELF DEFENSEAS JUSTIFICATION
     

    Eli

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    I'm unsurprised the jury found the instigator guilty, although I am surprised at the relatively light sentence and the acquittal of the son - and curious at the ineptitude of the prosecutor over some of the things that were allowed at trial that should've resulted in a mistrial.

    Eli
     

    deemus

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    You take your chances with a jury. Sounds like the video caught some of, but not all the encounter.

    Wonder if someone felt the father, at 72, should have known better than to start a fight with a hotheaded neighbor.

    Do we know if the jury set the sentence in this case? Or did the judge?
     

    OFFascist

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    I'm unsurprised the jury found the instigator guilty, although I am surprised at the relatively light sentence and the acquittal of the son - and curious at the ineptitude of the prosecutor over some of the things that were allowed at trial that should've resulted in a mistrial.

    Eli

    What things do you think shouldn't have been allowed? If you are talking about the dead guy's history it was known by the defendants prior to the incident so it would be germaine.
     

    deemus

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    Do we know if the jury set the sentence in this case? Or did the judge?

    From the article above:

    "Before dismissing the jury to deliberate on a punishment for Miller, Judge Thomas Wheeler reminded the 12 that they may advise that Johnnie Dee receive no fewer than five years and no more than a life sentence."
     

    69ChevelleLSX

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    Seen the video, been to the neighborhood running service calls. Some have said the dead guy was a bully always yelling at people. Guess he pushed the wrong person to far. Bat did fly at the father after the first shot sounded. Head shot would have stopped arm movement I would think. Dead guy threatened a postal worker a few weeks before. House furnishings are not to be thrown in dumpsters. They do have a pick up day for those items. Abilene will fine the homeowner for leaving trash out in yard you just have to call. House I was at today the woman said they sentenced the old man to 14 years and the son is not guilty. She was irate. I just acted like I didn’t know what she was talking about. Both had a chance to walk away, both seem like they would have been covered under stand your ground, Both where instigating. The old man was a lot calmer.
    Sad all round for all involved.
     
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    bigtex10mm

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    First, If the dead guy has been causing so much trouble, why haven't the LEO's been involved, especially if a postal worker was threatened? That could easily be a federal crime. Second, this escalated far beyond what it should have. Get everyone involved (i.e. City officials, Mayor, and anyone else) who could have stopped this senseless act by both parties that elevated to the death of one of them. So tragic and it also gives those who are lobbying to take away our guns more ammunition for their fight.
     

    zackmars

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    First, If the dead guy has been causing so much trouble, why haven't the LEO's been involved, especially if a postal worker was threatened? That could easily be a federal crime. Second, this escalated far beyond what it should have. Get everyone involved (i.e. City officials, Mayor, and anyone else) who could have stopped this senseless act by both parties that elevated to the death of one of them. So tragic and it also gives those who are lobbying to take away our guns more ammunition for their fight.
    Town bullies can have their ways

     

    vmax

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    First, If the dead guy has been causing so much trouble, why haven't the LEO's been involved, especially if a postal worker was threatened? That could easily be a federal crime. Second, this escalated far beyond what it should have. Get everyone involved (i.e. City officials, Mayor, and anyone else) who could have stopped this senseless act by both parties that elevated to the death of one of them. So tragic and it also gives those who are lobbying to take away our guns more ammunition for their fight.


    Screenshot_20230129_094624_Chrome.jpg

    Howard had plenty of run ins with law enforcement. The latest one pior to his death was making threats against the code enforcement officer who came to his house about the illegal dumping in the alley. Those charges never made it to an arrest warrant because he got killed before it could.
     

    69ChevelleLSX

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    View attachment 369800
    Howard had plenty of run ins with law enforcement. The latest one pior to his death was making threats against the code enforcement officer who came to his house about the illegal dumping in the alley. Those charges never made it to an arrest warrant because he got killed before it could
    First, If the dead guy has been causing so much trouble, why haven't the LEO's been involved, especially if a postal worker was threatened? That could easily be a federal crime. Second, this escalated far beyond what it should have. Get everyone involved (i.e. City officials, Mayor, and anyone else) who could have stopped this senseless act by both parties that elevated to the death of one of them. So tragic and it also gives those who are lobbying to take away our guns more ammunition for their fight.
    They have
     
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