Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

[etmo]

Qualified immunity, so no trial.

Non-LEOs/non-govt officials do not have qualified immunity, and that was the scenario:

etmo said:
… But if that non-LEO misses,..

(emphasis mine)

And even if it was a LEO, as Malley v. Briggs showed, qualified immunity isn't infinite, it's qualified. Obviously I'm not betting on which side would win, but it's not a stretch to claim the LEO should have reasonably known the kid could get shot, and thus shooting was an irresponsible exercise of power, meeting the Pearson test, and we're off to the races.

 

[easy rider]

I'd just like to not see this happen again. And if proven that inaction caused lives to be lost, then that's a problem.

Reminds me of the actual rape of a woman on a subway in New York. Several people were there and did nothing in fear of repercussions. Inexcusable, but in these times, understandable.

 

[Havok1]

I'd just like to not see this happen again. And if proven that inaction caused lives to be lost, then that's a problem.

Agree on that as well.

 

[etmo]

This is getting crazy:

Source: Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped​

Source: Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped

Surveillance footage shows police never tried to open the door to the classrooms at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

www.expressnews.com

"Investigators believe the 18-year-old gunman who killed 19 children and two teachers at the school on May 24 could not have locked the door to the connected classrooms from the inside, according to the source."

So we're worried about mechanical vs explosive breaches when the door was unlocked??

 

[ZX9RCAM]

"Connected door", or hallway door?

Certainly could have locked hallway doors.

 

[Havok1]

If true, goes back to my theory that they didn’t want to get inside the classroom.

 

[Texasgordo]

Havok1 and oldag both make good points. Reasonable men may disagree and I acknowledge they may be right and I may be wrong.

But I know I've been shot at and I've been kidnapped and at no time did I lack the presence of mind to make good decisions, taking into account the totality of circumstances. I expect at least as much from police officers. It's going to be hard to convince me that a policeman who sees an active shooter on a school campus and fails to shoot can possibly be doing the right thing.

Whoa why did you get kidnapped and shot at?

 

[Axxe55]

If true, goes back to my theory that they didn’t want to get inside the classroom.

I sure hope you're wrong about that. That's just downright scary to think about.

 

[benenglish]

Whoa why did you get kidnapped and shot at?

Multiple reasons but this thread isn't the place to discuss it. Ask for details if you ever see me at a meetup. I'm not shy about discussing it but only in person.

 

[Havok1]

I sure hope you're wrong about that. That's just downright scary to think about.

I would love to be wrong. I couldn’t read the previous article because of paywall but this article covers the topic and doesn’t make it sound too good.

Source: Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped

Surveillance footage shows police never tried to open the door to the classrooms at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

www.houstonchronicle.com

 

[toddnjoyce]

A tad different being a war zone and being at a school.

Not really, especially under the Obama administration. Didn’t bother the LEOs responding to the Duncanville Fieldhouse man with a gun call this past week.

Police in the Dallas area kill a gunman who entered a summer camp for kids

Authorities credit the fast response by camp staff and police with preventing injuries to anyone else.

www.npr.org

Steven Willeford didn’t even pause as he engaged, with a rifle, a POS standing between him and his friends inside a church. Barefoot and while taking fire, he put two rounds center of mass.

 

[Havok1]

Yes it’s much different than a war zone, because the kids you might kill are the ones who live in your neighborhood, not just random Iraqi/afghan kids that are just collateral damage.

we have no way of knowing if the circumstances in which police engaged the shooter in duncanville were in any way similar to the situation with the officer outside the school so it’s pointless to try to make the association.

 

[toddnjoyce]

This is getting crazy:

Source: Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped​

I have heard similar reports leaking out of the Abbott’s special legislative committee. Arredondo’s statement to the Tribune, through his lawyer, says

“Each time I tried a key I was just praying,” Arredondo said. Finally, 77 minutes after the massacre began, officers were able to unlock the door and fatally shoot the gunman.

Note what is quoted in that statement and what isn’t. Arredondo’s statement also talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand, he’s just another responder and not the IC, and on the other he’s ordering up SWAT from somewhere while or orchestrating the evac. I’ve given him and his department a lot of benefit of the doubt, but the more I come across, the more I leaned towards the ISD PD is/was wholly incompetent.

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

Criticized by law enforcement experts for slowness in taking out the shooter, Pete Arredondo described an agonizing wait for a key that would work. In an interview with The Texas Tribune, he said he hadn’t spoken out sooner because he didn’t want to compound his hometown’s grief or point blame.

www.texastribune.org

 

[toddnjoyce]

I would love to be wrong. I couldn’t read the previous article because of paywall but this article covers the topic and doesn’t make it sound too good.

Source: Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped

Surveillance footage shows police never tried to open the door to the classrooms at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

www.houstonchronicle.com

That article also states a Halligan bar was available from the beginning, but doesn’t mention whether a sledge or axe was also available, which is kind of necessary when dealing with steel frame doors.

It’s also striking the number of physical locks that apparently failed for this to happen. That olus the whole key debacle leads me to believe the ISD PD didn’t take physical security very seriously which goes back to wholly incompetent.

 

[popsgarland]

Non-LEOs/non-govt officials do not have qualified immunity, and that was the scenario:

And you know this far a fact??

 

[toddnjoyce]

And you know this far a fact??

Yes. Because only certain public officials carrying out their public duties are extended qualified immunity.

In my mind, I thought his response was in the context of an LEO hitting a kid as collateral damage and then being tried for that death.

 

[popsgarland]

Yes. Because only certain public officials carrying out their public duties are extended qualified immunity.

In my mind, I thought his response was in the context of an LEO hitting a kid as collateral damage and then being tried for that death.

I read the article in the post. It talked about a different scenario. It was about a warrant, ever the statue said warrant. I would think the law would not have said :warrant: but would have mentioned other scenarios. Of course it could have been mentioned later but it wasn't in what was posted.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I just heard there were kids playing outside, is the reason he didn't shoot.
This is what they just said on the news.
Is this correct?

 

[popsgarland]

I heard that, but only for 1 day and haven't heard about it sense.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I just heard there were kids playing outside, is the reason he didn't shoot.
This is what they just said on the news.
Is this correct?

There is not much verifiable information available to the public yet.

I tend to favor the Texas Tribune timeline page as it sources every statement and, up until recently, has been regularly updated.

What we know, minute by minute, about how the Uvalde shooting and police response unfolded

State officials provided a timeline of the massacre and have corrected crucial details amid public demands for information on how authorities handled the situation.

www.texastribune.org

There’s been a lot of info leak in the past week with some of it sourced, but not verifiable.

ETA: Express News gives a slightly different version of events and is not sourced. The diagramming is much better. For the first time, it’s reported the door between 111 and 112 is really a jack and jill bathroom. I don’t know how accurate that is, but it certainly changes some things if true.

Chaos and confusion: A visual reconstruction of the ever-changing Uvalde timeline

Following the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, state and local officials have struggled to agree on what happened the morning of May 24, 2022.

www.expressnews.com