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Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

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  • Maxrobot

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    Anybody here remember the April 1999 Columbine High School shooting? The police then were hunkering down behind fire trucks outside as the kids and some adults were urging them to go in the school. A teacher bled to death as the police were afraid to go in. They sent in a swat team and the team called for more ammo, even though the two shooters had been dead for three hours. Lawsuits were filed as parents and students alleged that some students were shot by law enforcement. Policies and procedures were created after that.
    The Uvalde school district has policies in place for emergencies, plus their own school district police force. I'm sure there are a lot of nervous people afraid of an investigation.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Considering AP has taken sides in their coverage, I have a real hard time clicking on any of their trash.

    Having said that, what we know about engaging active shooters is that every second counts. We also know that an active shooter can be engaged pretty much as soon they’re discovered and it’s still going to be too late for some.

    Stephen Willeford is a hero for engaging an active shooter after it was too late. LEOs are being crucified in the media without all the facts being known. That, I’ve got a problem with. No different than that jackass yesterday. You want to be that way, fine. Go be that way somewhere else.
     

    Axxe55

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    I don't agree at all. Grown men are expendable compared to children, especially when you sign up to be expendable. Blindly rushing in is exactly what should be done, when a group of childrens lives are in danger and there seems to be no other option when every second is a precious child.

    Now I know I'm not in a position to say I woulda done this, cause I'm not in any line of law enforcement, but I can say, when children are being executed, one by one, and seemingly the only option is to rush in, then that's EXACTLY what any grown man/men should do.

    No I don't have sources. Just my opinion.
    It's always easy to sit back in the relative comfort of your won home and to play Monday morning quarterback for Sunday's game and criticize the actions of others.

    Blindly rushing in, not knowing all the variables of the situation is just utterly stupid and dangerous. This wasn't a movie or video game. There were real lives at stake.

    But please share with all of us how "YOU" would have rushed in and saved the day?
     

    JColumbus

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    It's always easy to sit back in the relative comfort of your won home and to play Monday morning quarterback for Sunday's game and criticize the actions of others.

    Blindly rushing in, not knowing all the variables of the situation is just utterly stupid and dangerous. This wasn't a movie or video game. There were real lives at stake.

    But please share with all of us how "YOU" would have rushed in and saved the day?

    Apparently it's even easier to default to the typical online response about "monday morning quarter backing" when one is missing the principle, for the sake of wanting to simply be right.

    I never said how they should do it, exactly what should have been done, or anything of the sort. I'm simply disagreeing with your principle that when kids are being popped off in a room, their would be heroes, the only ones in a position to save them by the way, should go form a plan first. You know, all while every second is another bullet in another kid.

    If in that situation you'd have your own self preservation prioritized over a ten year old's salvation, all power to ya, big guy. You catch'n my hail marry?

    Analyzing "variables" while kids are getting shot... Hahaha DAMN.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Blindly rushing in, not knowing all the variables of the situation is just utterly stupid and dangerous...

    Unfortunatley, that’s the name of the game with active shooters. The active shooter is on the offensive, responders have to both defend themselves and counter attack. It’s a tough head space to get into considering there’s some shock that has to be overcome.

    There’s a reason behind that saying about everyone has a plan until they’re punched in the face. Most people, LEO included, just don’t spend the time training their brains to ignore the shock and begin the counter attack.

    The other thing we know is the BORTAC agents assaulted the room and encountered locked, steel core doors and cinderblock walls. Highly trained breachers and they still had to get a master key to gain entry.

    I get there’s a lot of emotion around what happened, but there’s a town that needs time, not public attention to just get thru today.
     
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    oldag

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    There's an even chance the SRO wasn't armed.

    I'm still of the opinion, though, that if the cops were that close they should've stopped and shot the bastard in the back as soon as he crossed onto school property while armed and fleeing a crime scene.
    And had they done so, they would have been up on federal charges. Shooting that poor minority child in the back.
     

    Renegade

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    I agree. They needed to assess the situation to know what the best course of action to take. Unfortunately that takes a little time. Blindly rushing in, could have meant many more lives would have been lost.
    !
    If assess means 10 seconds, sure. But since Columbine active school shooter means you go in immediately without backup, with whatever tools you have.

    It appears they did this, but then could not breach the classroom door.

    It is also remarkable a guy who only bought the guns a few days earlier was able to neutralize the first 3 LEOs to engage. WTF
     

    Axxe55

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    Apparently it's even easier to default to the typical online response about "monday morning quarter backing" when one is missing the principle, for the sake of wanting to simply be right.

    I never said how they should do it, exactly what should have been done, or anything of the sort. I'm simply disagreeing with your principle that when kids are being popped off in a room, their would be heroes, the only ones in a position to save them by the way, should go form a plan first. You know, all while every second is another bullet in another kid.

    If in that situation you'd have your own self preservation prioritized over a ten year old's salvation, all power to ya, big guy. You catch'n my hail marry?

    Analyzing "variables" while kids are getting shot... Hahaha DAMN.
    My point was, it's easy to criticize their actions after the fact, and none of us were there. They were.

    Blindly rushing in without any intel as to what the shooter has, or exactly where he's barricaded, whether he has a hostage, or hostages, or where the children are located in the room seems suicidal and stupid to me.

    What if blindly rushing in to save the day, you end up shooting a child? What about what orders they were given by their superiors? What if you just ended up being one of the body count?
     

    oldag

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    I can only imagine what it would be like trying to breach a door with the shooter killing people inside and also shooting at you. Pure speculation on my part but a lot of classroom doors are heavy and open outwards. You'll need a pry tool instead of a ram.

    Sent from my SM-A135U1 using Tapatalk
    The steel barrier door prevented them from entering. They had to wait for the principal to bring a pass key.
     

    JColumbus

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    My point was, it's easy to criticize their actions after the fact, and none of us were there. They were.

    Blindly rushing in without any intel as to what the shooter has, or exactly where he's barricaded, whether he has a hostage, or hostages, or where the children are located in the room seems suicidal and stupid to me.

    What if blindly rushing in to save the day, you end up shooting a child? What about what orders they were given by their superiors? What if you just ended up being one of the body count?

    Well yea I don't disagree with refraining from criticizing their actions, as long as there were actions. You gotta keep in mind, they train for this stuff so shooting a kid in the head when rushing in is not something even remotely likely to happening. The guys tasked with responding to this stuff are movie quality shooters.

    I get your hypothetical reluctance to do that man, but you also have to keep in mind, these are kids in there. Kids being shot with every second that goes by. By all means, rush in and accidentally kill the teacher.

    But anyway... I think we probably agree on most of this, just misunderstanding in the midst of our wishing that this just didn't happen to begin with.
     

    candcallen

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