Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

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  • alwho421

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    There hasn't been an airline hijacking in the U.S. since 9/11/2001. You know why?
    It wasn't because we banned box cutters.
    It wasn't because we passed laws against hijacking, murder, assault, etc.
    It was because we changed the game.
    We setup a secure perimiter around airports with fences, metal detectors and security personel, where none had existed previously.
    We hardened cockpit doors to make it difficult to gain entry. Not impossible, but hard enough that they won't get in quickly. This buys time for the last piece of the puzzle...
    We fought back! Men and Women on flight 93 fought back with every measure of resistance they had.
    Hijackers took notice. They have tried to get through security, but success has been limited so they stopped trying. They know that locked door will be hard to get through, and they KNOW Americans will die to stop them from getting through that door.
    WHY DO WE TALK ABOUT BANNING GUNS (box cutters)?!
    Why don't we secure the perimeter of a school campus (airport), and defend it with screening and armed personnel?
    Why don't we harden classroom doors (cockpit) against forced entry?
    Why don't we prepare every teacher, administrator amd student to FIGHT BACK?!
    A shooter can't shoot much when 20 students are throwing shit at them. They can't get through doors that are locked remotely when someone pulls an active shooter alarm. They can't easily access a campus with a secure perimeter and people trained and equipped to stop them.
    When evil people see our resolve in these measures, they will stop preying on schools.
    But you ban my gun? You make it harder for a law abiding citizen to buy a gun? Nah. That won't remotely deter an evil person from their mission. It will just set up me, AND YOU, to lose the fight when they come to our door.
    Texas SOT
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Fox newscaster just stated that he saved his money to buy the guns, and he told several people that he was saving for this reason.

    Daily Mail reports the same thing, just in greater detail and names the source as a former coworker.

    “She claimed Ramos openly talked about using the money he earned at Wendy's to purchase guns and ammo, adding that he 'suddenly quit' weeks before Tuesday's shooting.

    'He told us he was saving up money for guns and ammo. We would ask him, 'Why would you spend your money on that, spend it on a car or something useful,' Cruz said. 'I guess once he got enough money, he quit and stopped showing up.'”

     

    kyletxria1911a1

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    We live in a society that thinks that the world is supposed to be sunshine and unicorn fartts.

    They truly think the world is a nice place.
    It's not that I can tell you I've lived it
    Like alwho421 said we better get past this nonsense about traumatized kids about harder defense of schools.
    And teachers with guns. Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is good guy with a gun.
    Period sooner we as a society grasps that better off we will be
     

    popsgarland

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    I can only imagine what it would be like trying to breach a door with the shooter killing people inside and also shooting at you. Pure speculation on my part but a lot of classroom doors are heavy and open outwards. You'll need a pry tool instead of a ram.

    Sent from my SM-A135U1 using Tapatalk

    The last school I was superintendent on was 4 years ago. Part of the project was changing out all 155 wood doors to metal doors with small double pane glass inserts.. Each door opens in and the teacher had a key that only opened their class room and not the other rooms. There were 4 master keys that only the office staff had access to.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I can only imagine what it would be like trying to breach a door with the shooter killing people inside and also shooting at you.
    That’s the worst case HRT terminal scenario.

    One thing DoD learned over the last 20 years was hostage rescue tactics are much riskier for the assault team than combat clearing tactics. Knowing the only successful resolution to a hostage situation is being able to get the hostages out alive and uninjured adds a mental stressor complicates things.

    I’ll see if I can find the pertinent part of an interview with an ST6 assaulter who talks about that and post it in a new thread.
     

    oldag

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    There hasn't been an airline hijacking in the U.S. since 9/11/2001. You know why?
    It wasn't because we banned box cutters.
    It wasn't because we passed laws against hijacking, murder, assault, etc.
    It was because we changed the game.
    We setup a secure perimiter around airports with fences, metal detectors and security personel, where none had existed previously.
    We hardened cockpit doors to make it difficult to gain entry. Not impossible, but hard enough that they won't get in quickly. This buys time for the last piece of the puzzle...
    We fought back! Men and Women on flight 93 fought back with every measure of resistance they had.
    Hijackers took notice. They have tried to get through security, but success has been limited so they stopped trying. They know that locked door will be hard to get through, and they KNOW Americans will die to stop them from getting through that door.
    WHY DO WE TALK ABOUT BANNING GUNS (box cutters)?!
    Why don't we secure the perimeter of a school campus (airport), and defend it with screening and armed personnel?
    Why don't we harden classroom doors (cockpit) against forced entry?
    Why don't we prepare every teacher, administrator amd student to FIGHT BACK?!
    A shooter can't shoot much when 20 students are throwing shit at them. They can't get through doors that are locked remotely when someone pulls an active shooter alarm. They can't easily access a campus with a secure perimeter and people trained and equipped to stop them.
    When evil people see our resolve in these measures, they will stop preying on schools.
    But you ban my gun? You make it harder for a law abiding citizen to buy a gun? Nah. That won't remotely deter an evil person from their mission. It will just set up me, AND YOU, to lose the fight when they come to our door.
    The classroom door was hardened. Created a problem for responders to get in the room.

    Young elementary school kids are not going to fight back, at least not with any effectiveness.
     

    SQLGeek

    Muh state lines
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    Why don't we prepare every teacher, administrator amd student to FIGHT BACK?

    Because most adults, let alone children, in modern society don't have that mindset in their nature.

    You can't simply wish it to be either. It would take generations of changes for this to be a reality.

    I guess we could treat each school as a prison guarded by a platoon of soldiers. I'm not sure I'd want to send my kids there though.
     

    gll

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    I'm including the link to the WION report on the shooting, but it's really only this one quote of a comment that I wanted you to see...

    Screenshot_20220526-093810_YouTube.jpg


     
    Last edited:

    Darkpriest667

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    It gets a lot lot worse. Kid had no drivers license, didn't work full time (Wendys) and somehow had the money to purchase an AR15 350 rounds (2 AR15s sorry) and he looked trained.

    Also the police did not enter the school and engage the shooter for NINETY MINUTES and the resource officer did not engage the shooter only confronted him. This looks really really bad by law enforcement.

    1653575870861.png
     

    popper

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    Part of the project was changing out all 155 wood doors to metal doors with small double pane glass inserts.. Each door opens in and the teacher had a key that only opened their class room and not the other rooms. There were 4 master keys that only the office staff had access to.
    Excessive. Only needs a solid door, small window (screened) and lockable from the INSIDE. Fire code says doors open OUT which also makes it very difficult to breach from outside. Something like a good dead bolt that is easily locked/unlocked from inside all that is needed. Teacher doesn't need a key (to get lost), just lock the door when class is in session. Biggest real problem is not paying attention to the proper protocol by school staff. Yea, TSA setup is not real good either. Actual the biggest deterrent there is all the armed LE at checkpoints.
     

    Renegade

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    It gets a lot lot worse. Kid had no drivers license, didn't work full time (Wendys) and somehow had the money to purchase an AR15 350 rounds (2 AR15s sorry) and he looked trained.

    Also the police did not enter the school and engage the shooter for NINETY MINUTES and the resource officer did not engage the shooter only confronted him. This looks really really bad by law enforcement.

    View attachment 321762
    Seriously almost everything you quoted is wrong. Kid had a DL used as ID on the 4473, bought guns with money saved and police were in constant pursuit with first three to engage being neutralized


    See my previous post on “insane” misinformation, Twitter is doing what twitter does
     
    Last edited:

    Renegade

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    The last school I was superintendent on was 4 years ago. Part of the project was changing out all 155 wood doors to metal doors with small double pane glass inserts.. Each door opens in and the teacher had a key that only opened their class room and not the other rooms. There were 4 master keys that only the office staff had access to.
    So your school would have had a similar problem if the shooter got into the room and locked the door behind him.
     

    bigtex10mm

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    The school in the town closest to where I live has quite a few of the teachers and administrators that legally carry. They went through fairly extensive training on what to do, how to do it, firearms handling training and shooting techniques and how to properly carry concealed. The school even went as far as to place signs all around the school stating that the staff are armed and trained to defend the school and it's occupants. Some would disagree with all of this, but folks this world and its occupants have changed from what it used to be and we have to be proactive to protect ourselves and others from the nut jobs out there.
     

    Renegade

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    E. Fire code says doors open OUT which also makes it very difficult to breach from outside. .
    Doors that open out are easiest breach either with tools or explosives. Most just need a slap tool. Not that ordinary cops have those tools on the belt.

    I am puzzled why it took so long to breach door. They could have gone to Home Depot and back to get tools in less than 40 minutes
     

    Sam7sf

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    I don't agree at all. Grown men are expendable compared to children, especially when you sign up to be expendable. Blindly rushing in is exactly what should be done, when a group of childrens lives are in danger and there seems to be no other option when every second is a precious child.

    Now I know I'm not in a position to say I woulda done this, cause I'm not in any line of law enforcement, but I can say, when children are being executed, one by one, and seemingly the only option is to rush in, then that's EXACTLY what any grown man/men should do.

    No I don't have sources. Just my opinion.
    I won’t fault you for feeling this way. As I mentioned already in this mess of a thread: adults should go first. We have had time to enjoy our lives. It’s the kids turn. Unfortunately as I also mentioned it sounds like a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation. Also didn’t read anything in the ap article that would suggest le was trying to do nothing. The article did mention a father talking about going in himself but he chose not to.
    Apparently it's even easier to default to the typical online response about "monday morning quarter backing" when one is missing the principle, for the sake of wanting to simply be right.

    I never said how they should do it, exactly what should have been done, or anything of the sort. I'm simply disagreeing with your principle that when kids are being popped off in a room, their would be heroes, the only ones in a position to save them by the way, should go form a plan first. You know, all while every second is another bullet in another kid.

    If in that situation you'd have your own self preservation prioritized over a ten year old's salvation, all power to ya, big guy. You catch'n my hail marry?

    Analyzing "variables" while kids are getting shot... Hahaha DAMN.
    You have been saying what should be done. This post is as dirty as your accusations of others. I say that helpfully and not to tear you down.

    Every person in this thread is a Monday quarterback. Myself included. You included. All we are is guys typing an opinion and none of us witnessed how responders handled it, bickering about news sources and it ultimately just gives us something to do, you included.

    I could say a lot of things but I’m going to let it go and acknowledge I get it. You’re right in the emotions you feel.
     
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