APOD Firearms

Advice/input/info. for AR gas piston system?

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  • Shooter McGavin

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    I regularly run 500-1000 rounds between cleanings or lubrication on my DI AR with zero issues. I'll literally shoot it until the accuracy is affected, then clean and lubricate. Most of my friends do the same thing.

    People overclean their rifles like mad. A DI AR that's not used with a suppressor requires absolutely no more regular maintenance than a piston rifle.

    First off M. Sage, I'm not nor have I said that there's anything wrong with the DI gas system or that the gas piston system is better. I'm not arguing or debating that with you in any way, form, or fashion. As I stated before they both have their pros and cons and what you like I may or may not like, its our freedom to choose. Granted I can't really tell your demeanor from simply reading your typing but I get the impression that you're not trying to just simply be helpful with your post.
    I have put over a 1K rounds down the tube of my DI AR with only a bit of lube, I really don't think it even needed that but I wanted the peace of mind.... NO ISSUES, ZERO, NADA, NOTHING, ZILTCH!!!
    I'm simply doing this build with a gas piston set up JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT, that's it, nothing more.... The post was meant to receive advice/input/info. from others who have built or are running a piston gun, not for debating what a sucker I am for buying it or why the DI gas system is so much more superior, or that I clean my rifle too much.
    You're free to type whatever you wish as is everybody else but something more objective and/or constructive sure would be more appreciative....
     
    Last edited:

    codygjohnson

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    I've built many rifles with Adams Arms systems. Two 10.5" SBRs, a 16" Midlength, a 14.5" 5.45mm M16, a 12" 5.45mm M16, an 11" M16, a 10.5" M16. Adams Arms makes a good product. Their old kits came with a "carrier key" that acted as a strike plate for the piston to be used with whatever carrier you wanted. They've since gone to their own carrier to fix tilt issues. There are still a few new-old-stock kits with the old style key around (CDNN used to have a few), but I'd not recommend using one. The carriers that come with the AA kits are good quality carriers. I'd recommend a POF roller cam pin. They smooth out they cycling and add a little extra assurance against any issues with running a piston. Just like with any AR, the buffer weight will depend on whatever the rifle wants. I've got piston rifles running carbine buffers all the way up to H3s. Several companies are making extended forearms that fit piston systems these days. Here are a couple:

    IMG_13141_zps7102c845.gif


    The top is a Samson EVO 9-EX on a 16" midlength barrel. The bottom is a Daniel Defense Lite Rail 9.5 FSP on a 10.5" carbine barrel.

    You can see the large gas block here:

    IMG_13151_zps9686957e.gif


    No polymer sights, it'll melt. Also, they have an adjustable gas regulator which is nice for when you end up buying that suppressor...
     

    HillRider

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    So no basis for comparison with a DI rifle? And why would you worry about the bolt group getting a little warm anyway? I've never understood why people worry about that, it's not like it can get anywhere near as hot as the barrel does. But it's in the advertising propaganda, which means every tacticool piston gun fanboy has to say "it keeps the bolt group cooler!" every other sentence without knowing if, how or why that would matter or if it's even true.

    I think that's what bugs me most about the piston rifles - most people buy them because of a good (if completely false) sales pitch.

    I think there are concerns that the repeated heating to relatively high levels can weaken it. I'm not sure, but this is a justified reason if you are the type of gun guy that must have the perfectly designed platform with the most durable parts. I tend to agree with M. Sage, because AR parts are easily replaced. I'd be more interested in how a piston rifle out performs DI in harsh weather conditions, sand, mud, water, abuse, etc. I think there are valid points when looked at from that perspective. You may not always have time to maintain or properly clean your rifle over given period of time.
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    Jul 26, 2012
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    I've built many rifles with Adams Arms systems. Two 10.5" SBRs, a 16" Midlength, a 14.5" 5.45mm M16, a 12" 5.45mm M16, an 11" M16, a 10.5" M16. Adams Arms makes a good product. Their old kits came with a "carrier key" that acted as a strike plate for the piston to be used with whatever carrier you wanted. They've since gone to their own carrier to fix tilt issues. There are still a few new-old-stock kits with the old style key around (CDNN used to have a few), but I'd not recommend using one. The carriers that come with the AA kits are good quality carriers. I'd recommend a POF roller cam pin. They smooth out they cycling and add a little extra assurance against any issues with running a piston. Just like with any AR, the buffer weight will depend on whatever the rifle wants. I've got piston rifles running carbine buffers all the way up to H3s. Several companies are making extended forearms that fit piston systems these days. Here are a couple:

    IMG_13141_zps7102c845.gif


    The top is a Samson EVO 9-EX on a 16" midlength barrel. The bottom is a Daniel Defense Lite Rail 9.5 FSP on a 10.5" carbine barrel.

    You can see the large gas block here:

    IMG_13151_zps9686957e.gif


    No polymer sights, it'll melt. Also, they have an adjustable gas regulator which is nice for when you end up buying that suppressor...

    There we go, that's what I'm talkin bout now! Thank you sir, nice stuff.
     

    M. Sage

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    I think there are concerns that the repeated heating to relatively high levels can weaken it. I'm not sure, but this is a justified reason if you are the type of gun guy that must have the perfectly designed platform with the most durable parts. I tend to agree with M. Sage, because AR parts are easily replaced. I'd be more interested in how a piston rifle out performs DI in harsh weather conditions, sand, mud, water, abuse, etc. I think there are valid points when looked at from that perspective. You may not always have time to maintain or properly clean your rifle over given period of time.

    It never gets nearly hot enough for that to happen.
     

    M. Sage

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    First off M. Sage, I'm not nor have I said that there's anything wrong with the DI gas system or that the gas piston system is better. I'm not arguing or debating that with you in any way, form, or fashion. As I stated before they both have their pros and cons and what you like I may or may not like, its our freedom to choose. Granted I can't really tell your demeanor from simply reading your typing but I get the impression that you're not trying to just simply be helpful with your post.
    I have put over a 1K rounds down the tube of my DI AR with only a bit of lube, I really don't think it even needed that but I wanted the peace of mind.... NO ISSUES, ZERO, NADA, NOTHING, ZILTCH!!!
    I'm simply doing this build with a gas piston set up JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT, that's it, nothing more.... The post was meant to receive advice/input/info. from others who have built or are running a piston gun, not for debating what a sucker I am for buying it or why the DI gas system is so much more superior, or that I clean my rifle too much.
    You're free to type whatever you wish as is everybody else but something more objective and/or constructive sure would be more appreciative....

    And I didn't back my opinion with facts?

    Go ahead and build it, I'm just saying that it's not superior (or even necessarily as good) in any way as the DI rifles.
     

    Rangerscott

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    Aug 2, 2010
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    I just like how AR's are apparently the only rifle that can't have a piston seeing how many other rifles use the setup. This isn't the 60's any more. You're not driving your first vehicle any more. How many of you daily drive a carburated vehicle? It's called change and thankfully it's not a mandatory change.

    I like my 5.45 adams upper and it works. It's not full auto so I'm not worried about parts breaking/wearing down in a short period of time. My SVT40 has a thin rod piston setup, it's 70 years old with who knows how many rounds and forged from steel that I'm sure is imperfect.
     

    tominaustin

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    Jan 27, 2014
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    Steiner Rainch
    I posted this in the gun smithing section but haven't recieved any replies, with more traffic here I'm hoping someone can offer some insight.
    I'm starting another AR build and I'm gonna go with a piston system this round. From the research I've done thus far it would appear as though Adam Arms has the more recommended piston set up. I will be purchasing the barrel, upper receiver, and piston system all separately so I'll be starting with a clean slate. However I'm curious if anybody has already been down this road and can offer any advice.
    Would anyone recommend another company over Adam Arms for the piston system?
    Mainly I'm uncertain on whether to go with carbine or a mid-length piston set up on the "16 barrel or if it makes two chits either way?
    My second concern is the quality of the kits BCG, I can modify a BCG of my choosing to work with the system or purchase their BCG with the kit. I'm not sure on how the quality is compared to say Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, or Colt.
    Also, would anyone suggest upgrading to a heavier buffer to counter the additional mass of the piston?
    And finally, I'd really like to run a lite weight, slick, free-float tube but from what I've read the gas block creates a clearence issue with your average for end, so any recommendations with that would be nice.
    Sure do appreciate any input, thank ya much!



    I see that you have already started buying parts, but if you haven't put together an upper assembly yet, I'd like for you to consider a complete one from ADCOR (.B.E.A.R system). I have an ADCOR rifle and here are the reasons I'd like for you or anyone to consider:

    Features you might enjoy:
    a. Piston-Drive is adjustable (in case you want to add a suppressor later)
    b. Carrier-tilt is eliminated (rod is connected to bolt carrier and runs through upper receiver)
    c. Attaches to a mil-spec lower
    d. Company stands behind their products (like many other companies)

    Bonus Features you'll like:
    a. Charging handle mounted up forward (non-reciprocating and can be switched for left-handed shooters easily)
    b. Anti-tilt bolt carrier design
    c. Spring-loaded DUST COVER on bolt carrier (seals the dust out when bolt is forward)
    d. Full-floating barrel (really)
    e. Easy-field-strip design (uses a pen or tip of a round to push pins out)(pins also won't fall out) NO SPECIAL TOOLS
    f. Barrel range from 20" to 10.5"
    g. Design requires VERY LITTLE LUBRICATION anywhere
    h. Cleanup is a breeze

    The above is not presented as advice - but more as design features to think of when considering piston-drive AR's.

    Good luck with your build, enjoy the process, and let us know how it turns out (and how it shoots).

    TomInAustin
     
    Last edited:

    Rangerscott

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    Aug 2, 2010
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    Adams Arms has a low pistob block system coming out and theres another company coming with a low system. With my new AR, Ill wait awhile before deciding if Ill go that route. May just get a Ni boron/teflon bolt system instead.
     

    itchin

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    If someone has a good di carrier (cmt colt or similar) I'll trade my ops-416 for it and your gas tube with roll pin. I have extra solid pins for the ops-416 so you'll not have to reuse the one in my gas block. I'll throw in the pof roller cam.
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    Jul 26, 2012
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    I see that you have already started buying parts, but if you haven't put together an upper assembly yet, I'd like for you to consider a complete one from ADCOR (.B.E.A.R system). I have an ADCOR rifle and here are the reasons I'd like for you or anyone to consider:

    Features you might enjoy:
    a. Piston-Drive is adjustable (in case you want to add a suppressor later)
    b. Carrier-tilt is eliminated (rod is connected to bolt carrier and runs through upper receiver)
    c. Attaches to a mil-spec lower
    d. Company stands behind their products (like many other companies)

    Bonus Features you'll like:
    a. Charging handle mounted up forward (non-reciprocating and can be switched for left-handed shooters easily)
    b. Anti-tilt bolt carrier design
    c. Spring-loaded DUST COVER on bolt carrier (seals the dust out when bolt is forward)
    d. Full-floating barrel (really)
    e. Easy-field-strip design (uses a pen or tip of a round to push pins out)(pins also won't fall out) NO SPECIAL TOOLS
    f. Barrel range from 20" to 10.5"
    g. Design requires VERY LITTLE LUBRICATION anywhere
    h. Cleanup is a breeze

    The above is not presented as advice - but more as design features to think of when considering piston-drive AR's.

    Good luck with your build, enjoy the process, and let us know how it turns out (and how it shoots).

    TomInAustin
    Appreciate the info!
     

    breakingcontact

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    If someone has a good di carrier (cmt colt or similar) I'll trade my ops-416 for it and your gas tube with roll pin. I have extra solid pins for the ops-416 so you'll not have to reuse the one in my gas block. I'll throw in the pof roller cam.

    That's a good setup.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
     
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