Advice on nonimmigrant FFL

[ShortAndSharp]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on what the legal position might be for me in terms of purchasing a firearm in Texas.

At the moment I am neither a US Citizen nor a Permanent Resident, however I am a lawfully admitted, work-authorized ,Texas-resident nonimmigrant alien in possession of a valid hunting license.

I appreciate that's a bit of a mouthful, however my understanding is that under 18 U.S. Code 922, because I am a lawfully admitted nonimmigrant in possession of a valid hunting license I am exempt from the general prohibition from being in possession of a firearm.

In addition to that I am current resident in Texas, have a valid Texas driver license and have valid title to a vehicle registered in Texas.

On the assumption that I qualify under Federal Law, what would be sufficient to establish eligibility to own a handgun under Texas law and what documentation would I need to bring with me to execute an FFL transfer rather than a private party sale?

Do my documents have to be dated more than X number of days in the past, or is a driver license/title/apartment lease sufficient to demonstrate Texas residence under the law?

I have actually asked a few local gun stores but it seems that I'm such an unusual case that literally none of them have ever came across this scenario before, so understandably they were reluctant to take the purchase further as they were unsure of their exact legal position.

 

[Nightwatch]

ATF has posted the latest The Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide online as a PDF. On page 12-


"(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—


(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2) is a fugitive from justice;

(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien—


(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));"


That Guide will be in the gunstores-it's their daily reference book...they won't have the immigration act docs mentioned...but it's a place for you to search online and see if you qualify under that exception...more on p.14. You may find the info and you may fit the exception, but it's doubtful most dealers would want to take a chance-you may end up having an ATF agent contact a dealer and help you. Lotta diggin'...lotta paperwork.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

That seems to be the issue that I'm coming across - it's legal, but sufficiently uncommon that nobody wants to take the chance.

If I was to purchase through a private sale instead, what would be sufficient documentary proof to establish Texas residency?

Would my Texas driver license be sufficient for that?

 

[Nightwatch]

That cite doesn't say it's legal-it says it's illegal unless you meet the exception it lists.
Once you've found out if it's legal or not, you can ask the dealer and he'll tell you what ID is necessary. That law I cited says it's not legal for ANY PERSON, dealer or not, to sell unless you meet the exception and jump through the hoops to prove it...don't get another person in trouble as well as yourself by trying to skirt the law. If you have to use a gun in a defensive scenario, you'll have enough to deal with as it is...be safe, do it right.

 

[majormadmax]

OK, I am not a lawyer; but if you are a legal resident of the State of Texas, then you should be able to legally purchase a firearm.

For a private sale, a DL is sufficient to prove residency although usually it's not necessary. However, if you appear to be from from out of the state or country, it would help confirm you are legal to purchase a firearm.

 

[Nightwatch]

OK, I am not a lawyer; but if you are a legal resident of the State of Texas, then you should be able to legally purchase a firearm.

For a private sale, a DL is sufficient to prove residency although usually it's not necessary. However, if you appear to be from from out of the state or country, it would help confirm you are legal to purchase a firearm.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I do read the fine print. From the above quoted law:

B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));"

He is...so it's illegal for anyone to sell him a firearm unless he meets that exception...he's gotta go see.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

Believe me, as a temporary worker I have no intention of breaking Federal firearms laws - I have something of a vested interest in doing everything by the letter of the law, as I don't quite fancy doing Federal time and a subsequent deportation.

However the question was that on the assumption that I qualify under Federal law (and proof of lawful status and a hunting license should establish that), what would I additionally need under Texas law?

I would still need to meet both sets of legal requirements regardless of it being FFL or private sale.

Like I said, I want to do everything 100% legally so that I can stop being stung for rental fees every time I go to a range.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

He is...so it's illegal for anyone to sell him a firearm unless he meets that exception...he's gotta go see.

The question is asked on the assumption that I meet the exception, and ATF is fairly clear that I do:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...dmitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

The ATF naturally has no view on what the State of Texas requires of me however

 

[ShortAndSharp]

For a private sale, a DL is sufficient to prove residency although usually it's not necessary. However, if you appear to be from from out of the state or country, it would help confirm you are legal to purchase a firearm.

I'd have no problem providing a copy of my visa and corresponding I-94 as proof of lawful admission, along with a copy of my hunting license.

In fact I'd probably be slightly worried if someone wasn't interested in retaining a copy of those documents for their own records, just to cover their own ass.

 

[Nightwatch]

The question is asked on the assumption that I meet the exception, and ATF is fairly clear that I do:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...dmitted-united-states-under-nonimmigrant-visa

The ATF naturally has no view on what the State of Texas requires of me however

Nothing. It's the ATF you and the dealer or seller must satisfy...Texas doesn't have any paperwork to buy a firearm...it's all federal.The dealer's license to sell is issued from the feds. I'd get an ATF man to hook you up with a dealer and help you through...cheaper than a lawyer. I've had to ask for help in the Dallas area several times-never got anything but good attitudes and helpfulness.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

There is a field office near me actually, so I can't see any harm in stopping by and having a chat with them.

 

[Nightwatch]

A box of donuts might help

 

[ShortAndSharp]

Hah, I didn't know if the Feds eat donuts too or if that's the exclusive preserve of local PD

 

[Renegade]

Just read and follow the instructions on the 4473

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

 

[ShortAndSharp]

Just read and follow the instructions on the 4473

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

It seemed fairly clear when reading the guidance, however the responses that I've received in stores is pretty much along the lines of "Oh, I've never had anyone that needed to answer Yes to that before. Is that legal?"

Someone is either lawfully present in the United States or they are not, and if they are then they either meet one of the exemptions or they do not.

Like I said, I'm keen to do everything by the letter of the law as I'd prefer not to serve Federal time for illegal possession of a firearm.

The earlier suggestion to contact ATF and have them work with the dealer seems to be the best way forward.

 

[Renegade]

It seemed fairly clear when reading the guidance, however the responses that I've received in stores is pretty much along the lines of "Oh, I've never had anyone that needed to answer Yes to that before. Is that legal?"

Someone is either lawfully present in the United States or they are not, and if they are then they either meet one of the exemptions or they do not.

Like I said, I'm keen to do everything by the letter of the law as I'd prefer not to serve Federal time for illegal possession of a firearm.

The earlier suggestion to contact ATF and have them work with the dealer seems to be the best way forward.

Yes lots of FFLs do not know or understand law. Couple that with so low volume it falls into who cares, and you do not get a gun. In the last 10 years, I have two non-immigrant customer and one out-of-state customers.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

Couple that with so low volume it falls into who cares, and you do not get a gun.

It's their ass on the line, and at the end of the day why would they risk it over something that's so infrequent that they aren't personally 100% sure that it's legal?

Believe me I get it, and I don't blame them for shying away from it.

In the last 10 years, I have two non-immigrant customer and one out-of-state customers.

Out of interest, what were the countries of origin of the nonimmigrant customers?

 

[Renegade]

It's their ass on the line, and at the end of the day why would they risk it over something that's so infrequent that they aren't personally 100% sure that it's legal?

How is their ass on the line if they follow the directions on the 4473? An 8th grader should be able to do it.

Non-immigrant was from Bahamas, the other was Germany.

 

[ShortAndSharp]

How is their ass on the line if they follow the directions on the 4473?

You would have to ask them...

An 8th grader should be able to do it.

I don't disagree, however in my experience most people don't take too kindly when some Jonny Foreigner rocks up and tells you that they know your own country's laws better than the person who fills in the paperwork for a living does.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that would not have been a winning strategy for me

 

[benenglish]

OT Warning

Just out of curiosity, what are you looking to purchase?