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almost arrested for "falsifying government documents"

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  • robocop10mm

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 9, 2009
    996
    21
    Round Rock
    He was stopped while in his car. You do not need a CHL to have a handgun on your person while you are in your car.

    He did not need a CHL.

    True. Nowhere in the current law does it say you can have a handgun in your car but not on your person. Under the seat, in the console, holstered on your hip or up your anus, all the same.

    The FBI will not touch this. Unless you are physically harmed (pretty severly) the FBI would defer to the local authorities on this.

    Official Oppression? You would have to prove the officer "knew" his actions were unlawful. In this case ignorance is a defense, unless you go after the angle that you simply did not need a CHL to carry in your car. Then dispossessing you of your property "could" be Offical Oppression. The prosecutors are probably going to back their officers, which will in turn help to shield them from civil remedies. Unless the County has a hard on for the City. Get your stuff back and request the officers get more training. Avoid Rockwall in the near future.
     

    TexZaa

    New Member
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    0   0   0
    Nov 16, 2009
    30
    1
    Cedar Park, Texas
    change of address?

    My questions about this entire scenario have to do with the address of the CHL holder. In Texas we are required to notify the powers that be of an address change within a certain period of time. Does Utah not have a similar requirement? And....does UTAH condone or even know that this is being done in other states?

    The whole thing seems convoluted to me. It seems to me that this attempt to save a few bucks is a very costly way to buck the system. It is possible that this may end up with certain individuals giving up their rights to a CHL because of the advice of very misguided instructors, not to mention the money they'll have to pay a lawyer to represent them.

    Before people decide upon such a course of action they should envision themselves trying to explain this to an officer during a traffic stop. Envision the look of incredulity on their faces as you stumble through your scheme to deprive the State of Texas of a few bucks.

    No offense is meant, it's just not something I would even be tempted to consider.

     

    Acetone

    Active Member
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    0   0   0
    Aug 24, 2009
    352
    1
    El Paso
    At least for me it is not about depriving the state of Texas of a few bucks. The fact is, a Texas CHL won't let me carry in CT when I visit my family, however having a CT carry permit allows me to carry in TX. I don't see the purpose of getting a TX CHL and renew it every few years when I can carry on a CT permit and be good for 7 years.
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
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    May 28, 2008
    14,204
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    Ft Worth, TX
    My questions about this entire scenario have to do with the address of the CHL holder. In Texas we are required to notify the powers that be of an address change within a certain period of time. Does Utah not have a similar requirement? And....does UTAH condone or even know that this is being done in other states?
    Of course they do, as they have licensed out of state intsructors, and your Utah CHL lists your Texas address.

    The whole thing seems convoluted to me. It seems to me that this attempt to save a few bucks is a very costly way to buck the system.
    There is not bucking of the system. it is following the system. Utah offers a non-resident permit; Texas recognizes said permit.
    It is possible that this may end up with certain individuals giving up their rights to a CHL because of the advice of very misguided instructors, not to mention the money they'll have to pay a lawyer to represent them.
    "Misguided"? You'll have to clarify that.

    Before people decide upon such a course of action they should envision themselves trying to explain this to an officer during a traffic stop.
    Why, you don't even NEED a CHL to carry in your car. This is simply a mtter of officers not knowing what they were doing, if in fact this really happened,
    Envision the look of incredulity on their faces as you stumble through your scheme to deprive the State of Texas of a few bucks.
    Stumble? scheme? deprive? Get real dude.

    No offense is meant,
    Yes, I believe there was.
     

    GM.Chief

    Well-Known
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    0   0   0
    Mar 16, 2009
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    My questions about this entire scenario have to do with the address of the CHL holder. In Texas we are required to notify the powers that be of an address change within a certain period of time. Does Utah not have a similar requirement? And....does UTAH condone or even know that this is being done in other states?

    The whole thing seems convoluted to me. It seems to me that this attempt to save a few bucks is a very costly way to buck the system. It is possible that this may end up with certain individuals giving up their rights to a CHL because of the advice of very misguided instructors, not to mention the money they'll have to pay a lawyer to represent them.

    Before people decide upon such a course of action they should envision themselves trying to explain this to an officer during a traffic stop. Envision the look of incredulity on their faces as you stumble through your scheme to deprive the State of Texas of a few bucks.

    No offense is meant, it's just not something I would even be tempted to consider.


    First, the OP never stated that he had moved, so the change of address is a non-issue. The fact also holds that non-Texas residents can also get a TXCHL, even though they don't have a permanent residence here, and get the benefits of our reciprocity (usually, although some reciprocal states require that you be a resident of the state that your license is from to carry there). Utah gives out permits like candy, so people from all over CONUS get them, I know four people personally who have them. Utah permits give you reciprocity in (I believe) 34 states. I believe only 1 or 2 of them are states that Texas doesn't cover, so for the most part I probably won't bother, but if your job involves alot of travel or you vacation out of state it is more than worth it. Further more, Utah's permit is cheaper (and usually quicker) to get. Would life be simpler for this person if he had gotten his TX CHL first? Sure, but he was still well within his rights to carry under the Utah permit.

    It will in no way cause someone to not be able to get a TX CHL because he was completely within the law.
     

    TexZaa

    New Member
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    0   0   0
    Nov 16, 2009
    30
    1
    Cedar Park, Texas
    There is not bucking of the system. it is following the system.

    If it is following the system, why does this thread exist? Obviously a group of police officers determined that there was a problem. Now, he may win in the end but at what cost? Lawyers are not free.

    You should not take offense just because I don't think it's worth it.

     

    GM.Chief

    Well-Known
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    0   0   0
    Mar 16, 2009
    1,449
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    No one took offense, but just because there are some police officers who do not know and/or understand the law regarding this particular situation does not in anyway constitute someone bucking the system. Plain and simple, stating that all that appeared in the OP was accurate, the group of police officers were in the wrongconcerning the situation.
     

    txinvestigator

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    May 28, 2008
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    Ft Worth, TX
    If it is following the system, why does this thread exist? Obviously a group of police officers determined that there was a problem. Now, he may win in the end but at what cost? Lawyers are not free.

    You should not take offense just because I don't think it's worth it.

    Who took offense? The thread exists because, allegedly, some cops did not understand the system.


    I have my doubts about the veracity of the allegation, but that is another thread.
     

    APatriot

    Active Member
    BANNED!!!
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    0   0   0
    Aug 19, 2009
    779
    21
    Houston, Tx
    My friend,

    If it is following the system, why does this thread exist? Obviously a group of police officers determined that there was a problem. Now, he may win in the end but at what cost? Lawyers are not free.

    You should not take offense just because I don't think it's worth it.

    Do you think all cops are equal in their understanding of the law? Case study: About 18 months ago or about, after I received my CHL, I conducted a test. I asked a cop if a CHL could be packing "heat" at this movie theater. The movie theater did not have a 30.06 sign posted, only a No Guns Allowed sign. The cop told me CHLs were not allowed to carry weapons in a public place....LOL....What else do I need to say?
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
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    May 28, 2008
    14,204
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    Ft Worth, TX
    Do you think all cops are equal in their understanding of the law? Case study: About 18 months ago or about, after I received my CHL, I conducted a test. I asked a cop if a CHL could be packing "heat" at this movie theater. The movie theater did not have a 30.06 sign posted, only a No Guns Allowed sign. The cop told me CHLs were not allowed to carry weapons in a public place....LOL....What else do I need to say?


    Good grief; I hope you sent a letter to the Chief of that agency.
     

    thorkyl

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 13, 2008
    697
    21
    Brazoria County
    After reading the OP's post a few times I saw two things that made me think the LEO's may have been in the OK (not right but ok)

    1 - it was 0130 - CHL office in Utah is closed at 2130 unable to validate it
    2 - i could not tell if a license was valid if I had no clue what it should look like

    So the potential of them thinking the OP forged the documents would be accurate.
    The LEO's acted in a matter that did two things.

    1 - prevented a possible UCW (i know its in the car) but combined with the
    possible false documents it would/could be an issue

    2 - prevented a false arrest claim

    the taking of the firearm and CHL by error is not as bad as false arrest against the LEO that made the call.

    That's my opinion.
     

    Big country

    TGT Addict
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    0   0   0
    Mar 6, 2009
    4,318
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    Cedar Park,TX
    Do you think all cops are equal in their understanding of the law? Case study: About 18 months ago or about, after I received my CHL, I conducted a test. I asked a cop if a CHL could be packing "heat" at this movie theater. The movie theater did not have a 30.06 sign posted, only a No Guns Allowed sign. The cop told me CHLs were not allowed to carry weapons in a public place....LOL....What else do I need to say?
    :eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Good grief; I hope you sent a letter to the Chief of that agency.
    For sure!
     
    Every Day Man
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