Alright - someone justify what the president said here. Anyone.

[M. Sage]

From this interview: No Veto Threat on Tax Cuts to the Wealthy from Obama Yet - Political Punch

"...if you're going to spend, say 95 billion dollars, even just for two years for these tax cuts..."

I already know what's wrong with what he said, so don't bother telling me. I want to hear someone tell me how what he said is right in any way, shape or form.

And yes, I'm going to shove this under every Obama supporter's nose for the next month.

 

[texas skeeter]

Sorry Mr Sage, I cant say anything bad about Liberals or El Guapo will SPANK ME!!

 

[M. Sage]

Sorry Mr Sage, I cant say anything bad about Liberals or El Guapo will SPANK ME!!

Sounds kinky.

 

[tweek]

It's all just a matter of point of view. From President Carter's point of view it aint your money, so those tax cuts are the equivalent of taking money out of the government's pocket and putting it in your own. In President Carter's point of view that is no different than steeling the money.

Don't worry. They're already building the reducation camps where you'll get taught this stuff. What do you think all that Stimulus money was for?

ooops. That was supposed to be funny but suddenly it looks too damn close to reality. I'm going to bed.

 

[Texas1911]

The frame of thought is that the Government would take $95 Billion from the wealthy, and spend it back into the economy via social programs. The mentality is sound until you look at the medium the money is being moved. Essentially you would take money from those that are not spending money, the rich, and give it to those that will spend it, the middle class. Justification aside, this looks very promising from a macro level. The issue arises when you put the money through the most inefficient program in the United States, our Government. That $95 Billion would turn into $50 Billion by the time it actually reaches the market. So you've created $45 Billion dollars in wasted revenue. By opposite virtue giving the rich a break on taxes would increase upper level spending, perhaps not a large one, but would also put another 4% in bottom line to the wealthy.

If you gave 310 Million Americans, $50 Billion, it would sum out to be $161 / ea. That is not going to stimulate the economy in any measure. Especially not for the long term.

What is going to support people for the long term is job growth ... and reduced taxation for the wealthy is the best avenue for that with the topic being argued. If you gave someone that earned $5 Million dollars a 4% break they'd have another $192,000. At $40,000 / job that translates to a potential of 4.8 jobs. If you got an average of 9 Million people earning that level of income, that's 43.2 Million jobs you just created. You essentially just removed 10% from the unemployment level. That is all utopian in theory, but it does hold a measurable benefit over giving $161 to every American.

Even if the wealthy keep their money, the investments and holdings alone would yield far more benefit than giving $161 to every American. If they spent it into their businesses for reconstruction, retooling, or rehiring that'd be absolutely ideal. If they invested it into revitalizing American company investment profiles, that itself would yield positive job growth.

What the Democrats want to do is stall the tax cuts, so that they can blame the Republicans in November for it not passing. They want to give a handout to the American populous so that they can buy votes. The ultimate goal in this is politics, as usual, and we, the People, are getting the Washington beat-down yet again.

 

[M. Sage]

It's all just a matter of point of view. From President Carter's point of view it aint your money, so those tax cuts are the equivalent of taking money out of the government's pocket and putting it in your own. In President Carter's point of view that is no different than steeling the money.

Don't worry. They're already building the reducation camps where you'll get taught this stuff. What do you think all that Stimulus money was for?

ooops. That was supposed to be funny but suddenly it looks too damn close to reality. I'm going to bed.

Exactly! And that's the problem I have with it. He views our paychecks as the government's property. I don't know if you've thought it out before, but here's what your paycheck is, and it's simple. You work, you get paid. You're selling your labor, or the product of it (same thing), and the money you get in the form of your paycheck is what you get in exchange. My paycheck is just a way to convert my labor (all the cars I fix) into something I can use elsewhere (food, rent, ammo, etc.) since I can't use all the cars I've fixed for other people directly.

So to claim ownership of my paycheck is to claim ownership of my labor. But wait, there's more!

It's the same in pretty much everybody short of unskilled laborers. What's my labor? How do I fix those cars? With knowledge learned through years of experience, for one thing. You don't just wave wrenches at cars and they magically work again, you have to have a clue what you're doing. Especially when you're getting into computer systems, ABS, tearing into engines to do things like head gaskets, etc. Knowledge is one requirement, and you have to spend a significant portion of your life gaining it. I earned what I know by working hard for it. Another aspect is skill. I've seen people who've been taught and taught and can't fix the simplest things. There's an aptitude required that not everybody has. Not everybody can learn to look at a machine and figure out how it works. Knowing how these things work isn't enough, you have to understand it, and that's something that IMO is inborn. I really believe that it's a part of your basic makeup. Then there is the time I spend at work. I could be doing something else, but I'm working, spending time. Lastly, there's the physical side. I work in 100+ degree heat during the summers - no AC for me. I sweat, I smash my knuckles, I burn myself, I scrape my arms getting into tight spots. I'm exposed to dangerous, toxic and foul chemicals. I suffer small injuries pretty much daily. I literally bleed for my pay sometimes. My hands are covered with scars and I'm sure my fingers will quit working all together when I'm about 60. I had to have stitches put inside my right index finger 15 years ago, they're permanent.

I cannot think of any other way to classify the sum of those four attributes - knowledge, talent, time and physical being - than as the sum of your LIFE. To assume you own my paycheck is to assume you own me and that is not an attitude that is compatible with a legitimate government. It's the attitude of a slave owner.

So my problem with what he said? He's calling me his slave. I have a HUUUGE issue with that.

 

[Texas1911]

I cannot think of any other way to classify the sum of those four attributes - knowledge, talent, time and physical being - than as the sum of your LIFE. To assume you own my paycheck is to assume you own me and that is not an attitude that is compatible with a legitimate government. It's the attitude of a slave owner.

Government stopped being representative and public servants, and started being the self-serving slave driver a number of years ago. The only thing that allowed that was the American people. We ourselves are to blame for this, and until we demand anything else from Washington, we will continue to suffer the wrath of those bastards.

 

[M. Sage]

Government stopped being representative and public servants, and started being the self-serving slave driver a number of years ago. The only thing that allowed that was the American people. We ourselves are to blame for this, and until we demand anything else from Washington, we will continue to suffer the wrath of those bastards.

Exactly. It was all over when we let public employees unionize.

 

[SiscoKid]

I'm having a hard time following this thread, too many "numbers", my head is spinning. Reminds me of when I took Calculus in college. Forget all that craaap.

The problem I see with this president's rants, er, I mean Telepromptered speeches, is that I can see that he don't know JACK about what he's talking about. Then the illiterate liberal voters pick up and praise his every word, they spread it, and the cycle starts all over again.

For instance. The other day I was on another board and a Libtard, I think it was a woman, said of the Tax Cuts to the rich - "They will only take it and spend it on Investments and Manpower". HUH????? It took me a few minutes to come back on that, but wasn't she actually admitting that they will do what they should be doing?

The point is this. Politics today is Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie, and then BS, BS, BS, BS. The "winners" on the open debate boards are the ones who are the wittiest, who can BS the best and make it sound plausible. This also goes hand in hand with the latest issue here, debate but don't get too VIOLENT. Put people down but don't make them mad.

A change of pace to close out this post....

M. Sage talks about his mechanic work. I was a mechanic in my earlier years, but then got an education. What does an "educated" mechanic graduate to? Computer work, which is mechanic work without getting your hands dirty.

One funny. Back when I was a Soph in high school, I had a 51 Mercury flathead V-8. It got to running bad and someone told me to change the head gaskets. I did. But all I had was a set of Open End Wrenches. I remember that I had to use my shoes to kick the wrenches to get the bolts loose. Put the new ones back on the same way. It ran better. Someone asked me what I torqued the head bolts to? I said, "what's torque"?

Last night wife's car had Check Engine light on, running poor. I hooked up my Scangage to access PROM computer, ran the computer codes, cleared the bad code that didn't amount to anything, boosted idle, doing fine.

My how "mechanic" work has changed in 50 years.

 

[navyguy]

There is a hidden (well maybe not so hidden) agenda to vertically everything Obama does. And that is to turn us into a socialist country and a nanny state. You can see the power shifting from the people to the government and once it gets there, it will take a herculean effort to get it back. But it is not too late. First there is the elections this November. Conservatives need to win the Senate and a bonus would be to either win the House or at least get closer to a majority. Then there is 2012. Absent those victories, I'm afraid it will be too late and we will be screwed.

 

[Alamo Ann]

Yes, i agree and pray the elections will give the power back to the people - but i feel Obama knows his unfettered power is in immediate jeopardy and may pull false flag crap before the elections......
If ya'll are praying folks, crank 'em up.
God Bless and Keep America.

 

[Rum Runner]

Things like this always remind me of an old story (dont let the recent date fool you I saw this years ago)

New Zealand Conservative: A Restaurant Tax Story

 

[texas skeeter]

Dang RumRunner, you just described "Liberal Justice"!!!!

 

[TheDan]

One funny. Back when I was a Soph in high school, I had a 51 Mercury flathead V-8. It got to running bad and someone told me to change the head gaskets. I did. But all I had was a set of Open End Wrenches. I remember that I had to use my shoes to kick the wrenches to get the bolts loose.

Put the closed end of the wrench on whatever you're trying to loosen. Take a bigger wrench and slip the closed end of it onto the side of the open end of your wrench in the direction you want to turn it. Do it right and the larger wrench will bind on the smaller one when you apply pressure. Instant cheater bar!

I don't even want to comment on the rest of this thread. Not good for my stress levels...

 

[M. Sage]

Put the closed end of the wrench on whatever you're trying to loosen. Take a bigger wrench and slip the closed end of it onto the side of the open end of your wrench in the direction you want to turn it. Do it right and the larger wrench will bind on the smaller one when you apply pressure. Instant cheater bar!

I don't even want to comment on the rest of this thread. Not good for my stress levels...

Works every time. Also, using the open end is a great way to have a wrench slip on you. I only use the open end after the fastener is broken loose...

 

[leonidas]

It is short-sided for any conservative/constiutionalist to call a liberal ignorant of what they are doing. Obama is intelligent, and he and his ilk know exactly what they are doing. Look at them as masters of their craft. I'll let you decide what that craft is, and it's quite simple if you break it down. I agree with M. Sage - he's validating in his speech that we are slaves (just make sure you don't use the term "slave" - it's a no-no today).

 

[Wolfwood]

Yes, i agree and pray the elections will give the power back to the people - but i feel Obama knows his unfettered power is in immediate jeopardy and may pull false flag crap before the elections......
If ya'll are praying folks, crank 'em up.
God Bless and Keep America.

so far i think i liek all of your posts.

this is a crazy subject. to tired for much comment atm though

 

[M. Sage]

It is short-sided for any conservative/constiutionalist to call a liberal ignorant of what they are doing. Obama is intelligent, and he and his ilk know exactly what they are doing. Look at them as masters of their craft. I'll let you decide what that craft is, and it's quite simple if you break it down. I agree with M. Sage - he's validating in his speech that we are slaves (just make sure you don't use the term "slave" - it's a no-no today).

Exactly. Obama is great at playing the rube, compared to someone like Hillary. You can see her lust for more power on her face... I used to think Obama was just another moron, but I've come around. He knows what he's doing. He's not doing anything by accident, through ignorance, stupidity or incompetence. He's not the ideologue I thought he was. This is a planned, cynical attack.