APOD Firearms

Am I an idiot.... considering .410 ga for anti-snake purposes

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  • Axxe55

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    Here's how I see that. If you pin the snake's head to the ground, at some point, you are going to have to handle the snake. Huge problem there. Even veteran snake handlers get snake bit from time to time. So the potential for someone not use to handling snakes, getting bit, would be great IMO.

    Even getting bit by a non-venomous snake has huge risks. No, they aren't venomous, but they have nasty bacteria in their mouths that can lead to all sorts of infections from the bite.
     

    satx78247

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    You have snakes in east Texas? I though the red bugs took care of them.


    Coop45; All,

    My childhood friend Brenda, (who I've known since I was 3YO & "Bren" was 5YO,) & her hubby Dino have "a place on Caddo" & she often says that "The Cottonmouths & the Skeeters had a gang fight. The Skeeters won."

    The Skeeters "get landing instructions" from the nearest FBO.

    yurs, satx
     

    Axxe55

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    Coop45; All,

    My childhood friend Brenda, (who I've known since I was 3YO & "Bren" was 5YO,) & her hubby Dino have "a place on Caddo" & she often says that "The Cottonmouths & the Skeeters had a gang fight. The Skeeters won."

    The Skeeters "get landing instructions" from the nearest FBO.

    yurs, satx

    SATX, don't you start about the mosquitos!
     

    satx78247

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    Am I an idiot? Maybe. Probably? Regardless, I pose this question for a specific reason.

    Would it be a good / bad / other idea to consider a .410 shotty to potentially deal with snakes? We recently purchased a little less than 2 acres of wooded land on a ton of limestone. We have rock... everywhere.. and trees... rocks and trees. Seems like good snake habitat. We're currently cleaning up the land, setting up some small recreation areas for horseshoes, cornhole, and an airgun range. My concern is encountering some venomous interlopers while out and about the our little plot of Hill Country heaven.

    Maybe a 9mm or perhaps a revolver with snake-shot would be sufficient should I encounter something while clearing trees or moving stones.

    I'm guessing there are some opinions on this.


    DD130; All,

    A certain lady (who is VERY PETITE, beautiful, feminine & a GOOD SHOT, too) was "reading over my shoulder" & asked me "What in the World is a H&R Handy Gun?"

    I went & got it to show it to her. -

    She said, "What does it shoot?"

    I responded, ".410 shotgun shells".

    She: "I like that. You should make some of them for sale, when you get your Type 7 license. It doesn't look like a complicated thing to make."

    The lightbulb in my head "went ON" & I said, "GOOD IDEA, Darlin'. - Maybe I will."
    (Chambered in .45 Colt & .410, you wouldn't need to buy a tax stamp, as it would just be a SINGLE-shot pistol with an 8-inch barrel." AND I could likely retail the pistols at 100.oo or less in stainless steel, with synthetic furniture.)

    IF that idea is INTERESTING to you, you may want to PM me.

    yours, satx
     

    Glenn B

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    Seems like discharging a firearm just to kill a snake is probably fun but overkill.

    Why not just get a 6' piece of narrow mild steel rod from Home Depot, bend the last 6 inches 90 degrees, and you use it to pin any snake to the ground from behind it's head, then relocate it or kill it based on your judgement and perhaps the type of snake (might want to keep rat eaters....).

    The steel rod will never run out of ammo, there's no risk of a ricochet, hearing damage, frightening the neighbors, negligent discharge, etc. Ammo costs a lot of money these days, too.
    Wow, a 6 foot long steel rod bent at the end, that simple heh! Never would have thought of it. Do I need special tools to bend the rod or can I do it by hand? Should the rod be round or flat? How far back do I pin the snake behind the head? After that, how far back do I grab the snake? What would I do with the venomous snake once I catch it the way you described before getting it to the release point, do I put it in a sack or a cardboard box or what? How do you recommend I dispatch the ones I'd want to kill after I catch them?
     

    Sasquatch

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    Knock on wood - I've not had to dispatch any snakes encountered on our property yet - they've all been kind enough to stay away from the house. I was in at one of the gun shops in town last week and he had a couple cases of .22LR rat shot. I picked up a box and have dedicated the little Walter P22 as my anti-no-legged-personnel weapon. I drop it in my back pocket when I am working in the yard. I also keep a garden rake handy for relocating the buggers. I need to make a snake hook out of some of the rebar I found. I don't particularly want to kill any snakes, but venomous snakes near the house will probably get dispatched. My wifey had to go under the house last week, said she saw "a huge black snake" under there. Guessing a King snake? He can be my pest control guy.
     

    satx78247

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    Wow, a 6 foot long steel rod bent at the end, that simple heh! Never would have thought of it. Do I need special tools to bend the rod or can I do it by hand? Should the rod be round or flat? How far back do I pin the snake behind the head? After that, how far back do I grab the snake? What would I do with the venomous snake once I catch it the way you described before getting it to the release point, do I put it in a sack or a cardboard box or what? How do you recommend I dispatch the ones I'd want to kill after I catch them?


    Glenn B,

    A "professional snake handler" (OR an experienced amateur) would LIKELY move the reptile to the release point in a PILLOW CASE, which is then placed in something like a covered trash can or cooler, for transport to the release site.
    (The married couple on ANIMAL PLANET from the RSA, who catch & relocate COBRAS, MAMBAS & African PIT VIPERS, are said to buy pillowcases by the GROSS & transport the snakes in what looks like an IGLOO cooler.)

    yours, satx
     

    Glenn B

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    Glenn B,

    A "professional snake handler" (OR an experienced amateur) would LIKELY move the reptile to the release point in a PILLOW CASE, which is then placed in something like a covered trash can or cooler, for transport to the release site.
    (The married couple on ANIMAL PLANET from the RSA, who catch & relocate COBRAS, MAMBAS & African PIT VIPERS, are said to buy pillowcases by the GROSS & transport the snakes in what looks like an IGLOO cooler.)

    yours, satx
    I caught, kept snakes for over 40 years; bred quite a few species too. Caught several venomous when I was younger and dumb (dumb because I went out alone). I forgot to put this at the end of my prior post :popcorn:.

    No pillow cases, most are too small. A snake bag would be better but any properly sized cloth bag made of breathable but completely closed weave (or whatever that would be called) is required - no cheese cloth bags, no burlap, no mesh bags or bags with weak seams or with zippers. You had best know how to properly bag a venomous species, how to tie off and manipulate (with a set of snake tongs not with your hands) the bag without risking a bite, and then know how to secure the bag and thus the bagged snake to prevent any risk of escape and thus of a bite after that. Placing the bagged snake into a hard container specifically made for snakes is best or you could use a galvanized trash can - something the snake cannot bite through. A locking container is best. No bent 6' metal rods either (imagine trying to manipulate a 6 foot long snake stick), should be using a professionally made snake stick or better yet snake tongs or best of all use both. If you are going to attempt to catch venomous snakes do not so it alone. Wear snake boots or leggings. Know the best first aid techniques for snakebite (not cutting and sucking). Have a first aid kit along, if possible have anti-venom for the type of snake (or at least know, both you and you snake catching pal, the location of the nearest trauma center with anti-venom and the shortest route to get there). There is absolutely no reason to catch a venomous snake if you are going to kill it as the other guy suggested catching then dispatching. Just kill it. Killing it from a distance at which it cannot strike you is safest, so safely shoot it. Many snakes can strike 2/3 of their body lengths on level ground, possibly further downhill or from tree branches. Don't handle a dead venomous snake with your hands or carry it close to your body. They can still bite and inject venom for amazingly extended periods after dying because of reflex action of their body parts. If you ever are bitten, try to ID the snake. Do not chase it and try to kill it, they can strike and inject more venom. Get yourself, or better yet, have someone else get you to a trauma center that has anti-venom or at least to an emergency room. Do not panic. panicking makes your heart beat faster and your blood flow faster spreading the venom faster. If bitten, do not drink alcohol like in they often do in movies. If you have already been drinking, avoid venomous snakes do not tease, molest, **** with them - you would be asking for a Darwin Award. Be extremely cautious around venomous snakes. If one was an imminent threat, then I might kill it otherwise nowadays, I look at and admire them from a safe distance.
     

    Axxe55

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    Many years ago, we had one supervisor at one of the shops I worked at, that was a complete idiot. During the summer months it was not uncommon for various snakes to be going across our concrete parking lots that was near pretty much a swampy area around the parking lots.

    Idiot supervisor, who actually had a couple of pythons and boas at home would occasionally find them slithering across the parking lot and catch them. One evening, he caught a decent sized water moccasin and was parading that thing all over the shop, trying to scare the mechanics with it.

    I got called to the shop, by one of the guys in the shop, that we had a dangerous snake problem in the shop. I was a bit confused, but put my boots on and drove to the shop to see what was going on. When I got there, three of the guys met me in the parking lot as I pulled up, and explained the problem.

    I walked into the shop to see "Luke" walking around with the water moccasin. Yep, I was pretty steamed! I motioned him over and he thought it was all fun and games and was grinning from ear to ear. I calmly told him to go as carefully as he could and release the critter, then come back inside to my office.

    He walked in about five minutes later, with enough time for me to calm myself down. I suspended him without pay for a week and told him to think over the consequences had he, or another employee had been bitten for his joking around and horseplay. I told him he was damn lucky I didn't fire him for his little stunt!
     

    satx78247

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    I caught, kept snakes for over 40 years; bred quite a few species too. Caught several venomous when I was younger and dumb (dumb because I went out alone). I forgot to put this at the end of my prior post :popcorn:.

    No pillow cases, most are too small. A snake bag would be better but any properly sized cloth bag made of breathable but completely closed weave (or whatever that would be called) is required - no cheese cloth bags, no burlap, no mesh bags or bags with weak seams or with zippers. You had best know how to properly bag a venomous species, how to tie off and manipulate (with a set of snake tongs not with your hands) the bag without risking a bite, and then know how to secure the bag and thus the bagged snake to prevent any risk of escape and thus of a bite after that. Placing the bagged snake into a hard container specifically made for snakes is best or you could use a galvanized trash can - something the snake cannot bite through. A locking container is best. No bent 6' metal rods either (imagine trying to manipulate a 6 foot long snake stick), should be using a professionally made snake stick or better yet snake tongs or best of all use both. If you are going to attempt to catch venomous snakes do not so it alone. Wear snake boots or leggings. Know the best first aid techniques for snakebite (not cutting and sucking). Have a first aid kit along, if possible have anti-venom for the type of snake (or at least know, both you and you snake catching pal, the location of the nearest trauma center with anti-venom and the shortest route to get there). There is absolutely no reason to catch a venomous snake if you are going to kill it as the other guy suggested catching then dispatching. Just kill it. Killing it from a distance at which it cannot strike you is safest, so safely shoot it. Many snakes can strike 2/3 of their body lengths on level ground, possibly further downhill or from tree branches. Don't handle a dead venomous snake with your hands or carry it close to your body. They can still bite and inject venom for amazingly extended periods after dying because of reflex action of their body parts. If you ever are bitten, try to ID the snake. Do not chase it and try to kill it, they can strike and inject more venom. Get yourself, or better yet, have someone else get you to a trauma center that has anti-venom or at least to an emergency room. Do not panic. panicking makes your heart beat faster and your blood flow faster spreading the venom faster. If bitten, do not drink alcohol like in they often do in movies. If you have already been drinking, avoid venomous snakes do not tease, molest, **** with them - you would be asking for a Darwin Award. Be extremely cautious around venomous snakes. If one was an imminent threat, then I might kill it otherwise nowadays, I look at and admire them from a safe distance.

    Glenn B,

    I do NOT handle venomous reptiles, PERIOD.

    Otoh, I saw my Dad catch any number of rattletails & cottonmouths with his bare hands & he NEVER got bitten. - He was a N-A/PAMUNKEY out of Delaware County, OK & knew how to do things like that.

    Sadly, he died in 1965 of a heart attack before I was old/smart enough to get him to teach me a LOT of Amer-Indian things that he COULD do & seemingly W/O effort.
    (A local TX Game Warden about 1962 or 63 asked him to catch a Cottonmouth for a TPWD exhibit at the Dallas Fair. = My Dad said, "OK. It may take me a few days to find one." - He found one on Lake of the Pines & that BIG Cottonmouth was on display throughout the State Fair In a glass case. - I have NO clue what was done with the snake after the Fair concluded.)

    Fwiw, catching/handling poisonous snakes is just NOT "my cup of tea", as I got snake-bit while gigging frogs when a was a Sophamore in HS. = The next few days were NOT fun at all, as while I received LITTLE venom, I did get a rather serious infection.
    (Cottonmouths are CARRION EATERS &their mouth's flora & fauna is often at least as bad as their venom.)

    yours, satx
     

    DD130

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    For the most part, with snakes, I have a live and let live attitude towards them. Now venomous snakes near the house, are dispatched pronto. They are a danger to us and the dogs. More than a few of my dogs have been bitten.

    I'm concerned about out dogs as well. One is far to curious about anything and everything. :/

    If you don't hunt or play gun games (clays, 3-gun, etc), the .410 is an excellent choice. Versatile, yet doesn't beat you up with recoil. It even works for perp defense with 000Buck.

    Skip the pistols and get a youth-size Mossberg 500 or a Shockwave.
    A 410 shockwave, or a Judge are the two things I mostly had in mind. I guess most anything that chambers 45 LC will also chamber 410?

    ... I was in at one of the gun shops in town last week and he had a couple cases of .22LR rat shot. I picked up a box and have dedicated the little Walter P22 as my anti-no-legged-personnel weapon....

    Not sure why it didn't come to me earlier, I have a little palm sized Beretta .22 that is pretty good at cycling just about everything. That would be pretty easy to have handy.
     

    Axxe55

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    I'm concerned about out dogs as well. One is far to curious about anything and everything. :/


    A 410 shockwave, or a Judge are the two things I mostly had in mind. I guess most anything that chambers 45 LC will also chamber 410?



    Not sure why it didn't come to me earlier, I have a little palm sized Beretta .22 that is pretty good at cycling just about everything. That would be pretty easy to have handy.

    We have one that is complete dumbass with snakes, He's been bitten at least five times I know of!
     

    BRD@66

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    Wow, a 6 foot long steel rod bent at the end, that simple heh! Never would have thought of it. Do I need special tools to bend the rod or can I do it by hand? Should the rod be round or flat? How far back do I pin the snake behind the head? After that, how far back do I grab the snake? What would I do with the venomous snake once I catch it the way you described before getting it to the release point, do I put it in a sack or a cardboard box or what? How do you recommend I dispatch the ones I'd want to kill after I catch them?
    :green:
     
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