Another Jail Sentence for the BOS crowd

[IndyDave1776]

I don't sell any guns anymore and I don't use them for crimes. So .............. I guess I'm OK?

At least until Sniff and Blow change things such as to administratively convert you into a criminal for possessing or being thought to possess guns.

 

[rotor]

It relates because BOS is a record, if there were no records, there would be no problem.



The ones to other prohibited persons were legal since he did not knowingly sell to them.

I don't understand your post. They had the shooter and the gun. They traced the gun to an FFL and then to Braziel I guess from the 4473. How could there be no records in that scenario? If there was no 4473 then they wouldn't have had a link to Braziel. Then the FFL would be the one going to jail.
FFL did the legal thing and made a 4473 and that was the record used to catch the guy not a BOS (I don't know if there was one or not) .
I guess I understand your feeling that a BOS can get you but in this case the 4473 was what caught Braziel. I remember buying guns where you just walked in to the LGS, plop your money down and walk out. Bought my first rifle at age 12 unaccompanied by a parent that way and I wish that I still could.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I don't understand your post. They had the shooter and the gun. They traced the gun to an FFL and then to Braziel I guess from the 4473. How could there be no records in that scenario? If there was no 4473 then they wouldn't have had a link to Braziel. Then the FFL would be the one going to jail.
FFL did the legal thing and made a 4473 and that was the record used to catch the guy not a BOS (I don't know if there was one or not) .
I guess I understand your feeling that a BOS can get you but in this case the 4473 was what caught Braziel. I remember buying guns where you just walked in to the LGS, plop your money down and walk out. Bought my first rifle at age 12 unaccompanied by a parent that way and I wish that I still could.

The likely problem is that Braziel had a BOS from the sale to the shooter. Without that, the ATF has no proof the Brazil didn't sell the gun to you, then you sold it to me, then I sold it to the shooter. They also can't prove he made a profit therefore leaving him outside the standards for dealing w/o a license.

 

[V-Tach]

Shit....... just get the dude to sign a BOS, take his photo and have him put his thumbprint on it.....

Do everything you can for them to trace it back to you when some idiot does something stupid.....doesn't matter if he wasn't a prohibited person......and the sale was legal...........

If they want to hold you personally accountable for someone else's actions.......do everything humanly possible to help them find you.....

That....is exactly where they are headed.............

 

[Charlie]

Many, many, many years ago, (when I was 13 yrs. old) and I rode my bicycle to downtown Waco and bought a single shot shotgun at a pawn shop (for $15) and no paperwork. I hoisted it on my shoulder with a sling and rode my bicycle back home. My how times have changed! (not sure what the "arrow" thingy is?)

 

[rotor]

The likely problem is that Braziel had a BOS from the sale to the shooter. Without that, the ATF has no proof the Brazil didn't sell the gun to you, then you sold it to me, then I sold it to the shooter. They also can't prove he made a profit therefore leaving him outside the standards for dealing w/o a license.

Just no mention of this in the article quoted but I do believe reading somewhere that he did have BOS, just can't find it. BOS in this case was not what caught this dummy.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just no mention of this in the article quoted but I do believe reading somewhere that he did have BOS, just can't find it. BOS in this case was not what caught this dummy.

Of course being a dummy didn't help any.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Many, many, many years ago, (when I was 13 yrs. old) and I rode my bicycle to downtown Waco and bought a single shot shotgun at a pawn shop (for $15) and no paperwork. I hoisted it on my shoulder with a sling and rode my bicycle back home. My how times have changed!

Yes, we used to go by the Constitution.

 

[Axxe55]

It's a moot point pretty much. He admitted to doing the illegal transfers to prohibited persons. He got a two year sentence. He got off light. He plead guilty to the charges. He was offered a plea bargain and he took it.

 

[Renegade]

I don't understand your post. They had the shooter and the gun. They traced the gun to an FFL and then to Braziel I guess from the 4473. How could there be no records in that scenario? If there was no 4473 then they wouldn't have had a link to Braziel. Then the FFL would be the one going to jail.

Braziel kept Bill of Sales. Those Bill of Sales showed he sold gun to shooter as well as others. ATF checked all those Bill of Sales and found some were prohibited. Then they decided he sold too many guns, and was an unlicensed dealer. And as a dealer, he didnt run NICS checks. And then they checked his 1040s and see he didn't report the sale income. Pretty much EXACTLY how they got Shipley but with more charges.

 

[Renegade]

It's a moot point pretty much. He admitted to doing the illegal transfers to prohibited persons. He got a two year sentence. He got off light. He plead guilty to the charges. He was offered a plea bargain and he took it.

Moot for him, but a good learn for the rest of us. No matter what precautions you take, you never know who will wind up with your gun and how far authorities will go.

Needless to say, as an FFL I am OCD about being squeaky clean and do not even take the tags off my mattresses.

 

[cvgunman]

Braziel kept Bill of Sales. Those Bill of Sales showed he sold gun to shooter as well as others. ATF checked all those Bill of Sales and found some were prohibited. Then they decided he sold too many guns, and was an unlicensed dealer. And as a dealer, he didnt run NICS checks. And then they checked his 1040s and see he didn't report the sale income. Pretty much EXACTLY how they got Shipley but with more charges.

Didn't read the article, but if he was finishing out 80% lowers and selling them, they most likely got him for not paying his tax on manufacturing a firearm.

 

[Axxe55]

Moot for him, but a good learn for the rest of us. No matter what precautions you take, you never know who will wind up with your gun and how far authorities will go.

Needless to say, as an FFL I am OCD about being squeaky clean and do not even take the tags off my mattresses.

You NEVER mess with the mattress police! NEVER! They are relentless!

Seriously, good points. A private citizen doing a private sale is not required to keep paperwork. No paperwork, means you can claim ignorance, and they can't prove otherwise.

 

[Renegade]

Didn't read the article, but if he was finishing out 80% lowers and selling them, they most likely got him for not paying his tax on manufacturing a firearm.

Well if you had read the article, you would not have posted that.

 

[Axxe55]

Didn't read the article, but if he was finishing out 80% lowers and selling them, they most likely got him for not paying his tax on manufacturing a firearm.

The article mentioned they audited his 1040's, so I'm guessing he also was charged with selling and not reporting the income for those sales?

 

[V-Tach]

They filed every federal felony they could prove................

 

[TX OMFS]

The article mentioned they audited his 1040's, so I'm guessing he also was charged with selling and not reporting the income for those sales?

Yes.

 

[rotor]

Braziel kept Bill of Sales. Those Bill of Sales showed he sold gun to shooter as well as others. ATF checked all those Bill of Sales and found some were prohibited. Then they decided he sold too many guns, and was an unlicensed dealer. And as a dealer, he didnt run NICS checks. And then they checked his 1040s and see he didn't report the sale income. Pretty much EXACTLY how they got Shipley but with more charges.

I thought I read somewhere that he had BOS just not in the quoted article you referred to. So, if you are going to sell guns illegally don't first buy them from an FFL and don't keep a BOS. Braziel's real problem was he bought from an FFL. If you are going to sell illegally, buy without a BOS, from a stranger, don't show any ID and don't keep any records. Sell them the same way, no BOS. Sarcasm of course.
How stupid can this guy have been? Got off lucky with only 2 years.

 

[billtool]

And if you are going to keep records of your gun sales, please make them immaculate for the agents! They appreciate tidiness!

What gun sales?

 

[Axxe55]

What guns?

FIFY! You can thank me later!