Another what if...

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  • .45 Delivery

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    Mar 26, 2009
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    Hurst
    I'm probably leaving myself open for a few burns here, but it's my first topic so please be gentle.;) Lets say I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path and stops me in the middle of the street. He then approaches me cussing and grabs me by the arm while I'm still sitting in my car. The man is well over twice my weight, and I'm now fearfull for my well being. Would it then be unlawful to implement a handgun as protection, and if so what options of defense am I permitted by law? Thank you for any help you can give me regarding this question.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    I'm not a lawyer!

    First off, I want to stress that we opt for deadly force only as a last resort. Given your parameters, it could be argued that Texas PC Section 9.32 presumes your belief that deadly force was reasonable:

    Penal Code Section 9.32
    Deadly Force in Self Defense

    The actor's belief that the deadly force was immediately necessary is presumed to be reasonable if the actor knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

    Unlawfully entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    Unlawfully removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment of the actor;


    Be sure you can articulate a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a 3rd party.
     

    .45 Delivery

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    Hurst
    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?
     

    40Arpent

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    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...as they say.
     

    .45 Delivery

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    Sorry, I tend to be dense at times. I know the meaning, but am having trouble understanding. Do you mean the circumstances could/would articulate said reasonable fear?
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?

    It might, but you never know where things will go in court. A liberal-minded judge may issue jury instructions to determine whether or not you had reasonable and prudent, and immediate fear for you life. Even though the Penal Code addresses this, you never know where things will go in the courtroom. This is why we have the Castle Doctrine.

    The more supporting factors you have on your side, the better. And remember, how you articulate the event to the police (or more correctly, to your attorney) can make or break your case.
     

    .45 Delivery

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    A piece of the Castle Doctrine...
    "(a) ...reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used unlawfully and with force was committing or attempting to commit certain acts, ..."

    I think this answers my question. Considering the demeanor and actions of the person force would be used against, in this situation, I would interpret deadly force justified. I hope I'm not mistaken, or perhaps I should not own a gun if so. :confused:
     

    glockrocker

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    how you articulate the event to the police (or more correctly, to your attorney) can make or break your case.

    That's something I'm curious about. If I'm ever in the situation where I had to use deadly force. Lets say for instance, I'm watching tv in the living room and I hear my front door being jimmy'd. I grab my gun and aim, when the perp walks in, I identify him as somebody that shouldnt be there and put him down. Now obviously the first people who are going to want to know what happened will be the police, should I clam up and politely tell them I want a lawyer before I give any details (and propably go to jail while I wait for one) or while feeling confident enough I broke no laws and I was the true victim, tell the police what happened and hope for the best. What would any of you do?
     

    .45 Delivery

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    I think I would communicate details through my lawyer whether I felt 100% in the right or wrong. It's just the smart thing to do in a system like ours.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    I'm probably leaving myself open for a few burns here, but it's my first topic so please be gentle.;) Lets say I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path and stops me in the middle of the street. He then approaches me cussing and grabs me by the arm while I'm still sitting in my car. The man is well over twice my weight, and I'm now fearfull for my well being. Would it then be unlawful to implement a handgun as protection, and if so what options of defense am I permitted by law? Thank you for any help you can give me regarding this question.

    What would prevent you from driving off once he got beside the car....ie: no longer blocking your path...I am pretty sure I would try that before I would shoot somebody, even if he was grabbing at me.
     
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