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Any OCers (OpenCarriers) in ELP...beside me?

Discussion in 'El Paso' started by BillRedding, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. BillRedding

    BillRedding Member

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    Jan 29, 2017
    El Paso, TX (Westside)
    tC_Matt,

    I OC 99.9% of the time...but like when I was in Colorado, the only place I don't was/is on Federal property -- meaning the SS office, VA Clinics, military bases and the USPS.

    Everywhere else I go here in El Paso, I do.

    And I like it that neighboring NM is also an OC state, so when I go up to Las Cruces I can OC there, too.

    Do you have some kind of positive retention device on your holster (didn't see one)? I ask because since I OC, I wanted a good Level II retention device "just in case" someone tried a gun-grab (plus, I have another "preventive measure" I can apply if that were to happen). My previous OC holster was a leather one with a retention strap/snap (pretty effective but not THAT great). Recently though I switched to those polymer holsters with the trigger guard locking button: Blackhawk Serpa CQC and a Tactical Scorpion/Cytac "roto" holster.

    Problem was that neither company makes a holster specifically for my carry gun (9mm EAA Witness P-S FDE, which I got online from Tombstone Tactical in AZ), so I had to order one "close enough" that would work, which in my case is the holster for a Sig-Sauer P226 w/rails.

    The Witness has been around for about 20 years I guess, but Blackhawk, Cytac and IMI Defense don't make a holster for it! Even though the Witness is "a CZ-75 clone" the IMI Defense CZ-75 "Roto Rig" holster I bought a few weeks ago did NOT fit the Witness (ALMOST, but not enough), so I had to send it back for a refund. :-(

    The Serpa required some modification before it would work (not because the holster was for a Sig P226, but because of the Serpa's mounting system using 3 screws), but the Cytac "roto" holster works fine as-is and I'm presently using the Cytac.

    -- BR
     


    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  2. kirk10100

    kirk10100 Active Member

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    By the way, I OC this weekend. Of all places it was at a Starbucks. I was carrying all day with my weapon concealed by my hoodie. Starbucks was my last stop and the place was really warm. I didn't want to go hide my gun in my car so I just took the hoodie off.
    I got several concerned stares but no one really bothered me. I was there for an hour and a half, free wi fi, and left with no incidents or questions.


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  3. tC_Matt

    tC_Matt Active Member

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    Yeah I make sure my OC holster has a retention device. The Safariland ALS has a lever you got to ouch forward with your thumb as you take your pistol out to release it. Gives me piece of mind that someone won't just come and snatch it lol


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  4. BillRedding

    BillRedding Member

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    Jan 29, 2017
    El Paso, TX (Westside)
    kirk10100,

    I've stayed away from Starbucks ever since flaming liberal CEO Howard Schultz came out of the anti-gun closet and said he didn't want guns in his stores, OC or CC -- it didn't matter. He kind of started the "No OC people here" -- IIRC, it was back when OCT was OCing long guns in his stores in TX back when OCing a handgun was just a dream -- and then other stores followed his lead such as Target, Chipotles, and so on. Later Schwartz said he'd not have his employees ask us to leave (didn't want to be "confrontational") but preferred we weren't there in the first place. Okay...you don't have to say it twice!

    So since then, I've been boycotting them -- not that they miss my $$, it's just I won't patronize a store that is clearly against what I do -- exercising my RKBA and personal Self-Defense, especially when it's legal! ;-)

    I USED to go to a nice Starbucks (this all happened about 3 years ago when I was living in Colorado Springs) that had a great view out their windows of Pike's Peak & the Front Range, so I was kind of sad he took that position. Of course, it's his business & his corporate policy, but I have my "policy" also, and won't spend my $$ at a place that doesn't want my business. Maybe that's just me though...

    Soon after I stopped going to Starbucks, I found another nice coffee shop to go to (sadly, they're only in Castle Rock, CO) called "Lost Coffee" and no one bothered me at all...even the local cops who also went there. So Lost Coffee was my choice from then on...

    Anyway, I'm presently @ a Village Inn now on the Eastside...was out @ Red Sands earlier zeroing-in my primary OC gun as I had put new (adjustable) rear sights on it....NOW I can carry it again and am doing so here @ VI, and with no issues (as per usual)! :-)



    tC_Matt,

    Great...I've seen some of the "lever" holsters but not up close. IIRC, some use that lever for their level III retention holsters, too (besides the "cap" that goes over the rear/hammer of the slide).

    I don't want to get into a debate HERE about OCing, but do know that the anti-OC crowd uses several lame/erroneous arguments, one of which is "Someone will grab your gun if you OC" -- as if we never even considered that! Sure, it COULD happen, but try to find examples in-reality that is HAS: The fact is that's an ignorant criticism of OCing (along with some others they parrot also). IIRC, a coupe of "OCed" guns WERE taken, but the circumstances of those events weren't what "normal" OCers do, so they're suspicious. Plus, some time recently a CCer got his gun taken. So we ALL have to be aware oif our surrounding and letting people (who raise Red Flags) get too close to us.

    Still, since it COULD happen (but why let someone THAT close) most of us have "contingency plans" and someone trying to grab our guns would find that out to their detriment.

    Frankly, someone trying to grab my gun gets an instant lethal force response, period. One can reasonably assume it (lethal force) will be used against you if its grabbed, so for me, a lethal response is a given.

    I know we can't be on high alert 100% of the time -- not even the experts can -- but usually if one has good SA (Situational Awareness) one usually can see trouble coming. MOST of the time. But again, I don't let people who seem like trouble get that close. It's just common sense.

    Still, a good retention holster (and perhaps some retention training also) is more important for us OCers than it is to CCers. To me as an OCer though, accomplishing "D&E" (Desentizing & Educatiing), even in a small one-on-one way, is worth the possible added risk.

    Of course, the MAIN reason I OC is the same CCers do: Self-Defense! I just add "D&E" to the mix...

    If people get more used to seeing guns "out there" -- and nothing bad happens, and even (sometimes) a carrier (CC or OC) stiops something tragic from happening -- maybe people won't be so quick to vote for anti-gun politicians and support anti-gun agendas & legislation.

    So all this goes deeper than just some people choosing to carry a gun openly.

    -- BR
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  5. tC_Matt

    tC_Matt Active Member

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    I agree 100%. I'm not strictly an open carry guy. This past weekend was actually my first time. I'll mainly cc but I'm not opposed to OC every once in awhile. It's just nice to have options!


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  6. BillRedding

    BillRedding Member

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    Jan 29, 2017
    El Paso, TX (Westside)
    Yes, having options/choices is always better than having only one.

    Well, almost always: I can think of some situations where you can have too many...or even where having only 2 choices makes a decision difficult! ;-)

    In a way, sometimes having just ONE choice is a relief of sorts: It makes things so clear & simple.

    -- BR
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  7. Ozzman

    Ozzman Active Member

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    El Paso, Texas
    Personally, 95% of the time I prefer to conceal carry. Over the past 13 years, I have collected numerous IWB and other concealment holsters for my carry pistols. I have not really had an itch to buy anything else than what I know already works for me, and for what I have practiced over the years. Over time, I have improved my draw from concealment to a state that is consistent and quick for my needs.

    However, I have practiced open carry from time to time, but to be honest I'm so used to conceal carry that I get self conscience about doing it. It's all in my head I guess. Personally, I never had any negative issues while doing it either.

    I too would be open to meet up one day.
     
  8. kirk10100

    kirk10100 Active Member

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    El Paso
    I usually avoid anti gun establishments but sometimes I have to make an exception. In this case SB has fast free internet. I will buy the cheapest thing they have, $2 cake pop, and sit there for 2-3 hours watching gun videos.


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  9. tC_Matt

    tC_Matt Active Member

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    Yeah having a meetup would be awesome!


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  10. BillRedding

    BillRedding Member

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    Jan 29, 2017
    El Paso, TX (Westside)
    kirk10100,

    Yes, that's why I used to go to Starbucks also, to get some java and use their Wifi...and enjoy the view out the window (as mentioned earlier). But after their "coming out" it stopped. :-(

    At the same time though, I was also frequenting Denny's, IHOP and Village Inn for the same reason (Wifi & java) so when I stopped going to Starbucks, I simply changed to going to those other 3 from then on.

    Too bad Starbucks had to make an issue out of it -- although I do understand they didn't want to be in the middle of a controversial/political issue -- but if they would have just said (like Kroger supermarkets and others have stated) "We go by the laws of the state our stores are in and if CC and/or OC are legal, it's fine with us" that would have been better. But Starbucks caved-in to liberal anti-gun groups such as "Moms Demand Action" -- aka: "Mad Moms," who tried to get Koger Corp. to ban "gun people" in all their Kroger-owned supermarkets, too, but Kroger refused: Good for them! IIRC, Home Depot did the same when "Moms" went after them, too.

    Anyway, when I want to go for free WiFi (and some iced coffee) while I'm out & about -- either here in El Paso or up in Las Cruces -- it's Denny's, IHOP or Village Inn.

    True, their coffee offerings aren't in any way up to what Starbucks has, but that's okay as I have my own espresso machine/grinder for my daily "fix" of caffeine every morning (a large caffè latte). And it's way better than anything Starbucks can produce on their automated (even if more expensive) equipment. I just liked going there as it gave me more choices for places to go and in more locations around town (Starbucks is everywhere) -- but again, didn't feel right going somewhere the CEO/Owner of the business really didn't want "gun people" carrying (CC or OC) those scary-looking/evil pieces of steel/polymer.

    But even when I was going to Starbucks up in CO (mainly Colorado Springs and Castle Rock), hardly anyone (sometimes it seemed no one) noticed I was OCing. And the only one time did someone not only notice but also said something was @ a Starbucks in Albuquerque: He asked if I was a "Homeland Security." Not sure what made me look "Homeland Security." ;-)

    That brings up a point: Since most people in public seen with guns are LEOS (Law Enforcement Offices: Cops, detectives, plainclothes ATF, FBI or whatever), the general public assumes an OCer is a LEO, and so they don't give it any further thought...

    MOST times, however, no one in any of the many Starbucks stores I went to ever said anything or looked "alarmed" about it...so really, it was a non-issue even back then. I hear that some OCers still go there regardless -- and nothing happens (same for Target) -- but it's just that THIS OCer doesn't go anymore. I DID go OCing to a Target (Colorado Springs) twice after their announcement and both times no one said anything to me, neither customers or staff/management. I'm not a regular customer anymore though, as I used to be...

    That's usually the case no matter where I go OCing: MOST people don't even notice my OC gun. I've even been standing at someone's table talking to them and they STILL don't notice a gun on me. And sitting down, they're right at eye-level with it! I guess it's mostly kids in stores (they're at eye-level, too) who notice more so than any adults do. So although a person OCing may FEEL like everyone is looking/notices, in reality only a few do.

    The gun I carry now is MORE noticeable ("Flat Dark Earth" polymer frame in a black polymer holster) than my previous gun (black gun in a brown leather holster) so NOW more people ARE likely to notice. Still, most people out in public aren't that observant.

    But that's something you have to accept: After all, you're OCing a firearm so people MAY actually notice it!

    ;-)

    -- BR
     


    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017

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