Anyone Following the Bundy Ranch Decades War With the BLM?

[Kennydale]

This going to be another WACO or Ruby Ridge, or Maybe an AMERICAN SPRING?

 

[Kennydale]

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I'm seeing posts on FB calling for fellow patriots in the area to grab your guns and head to the ranch and be ready to stand off against the sheriffs.

Here's an interesting thought. Say this is going on within 25 miles of where you live. Would you go and help either side, or would you just sit back and continue life as normal?

 

[Moonpie]

Is this the guy who believes he should be able to graze his cattle on public land for free?

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Is this the guy who believes he should be able to graze his cattle on public land for free?

Public land means government land.

 

[benenglish]

This going to be another WACO or Ruby Ridge, or Maybe an AMERICAN SPRING?

No to all those choices. The guy is running cattle on public land that has been closed to him by the courts. He claims that his family was running cattle there before the BLM existed so he has some sort of superseding, extra-legal claim to use the land forever.

Legally, he's wrong. Morally, he has a minor point but he's also been given plenty of time to adapt. Ethically, he's a hot mess.

There's no need for any confrontation with the rancher. Those snipers they've deployed around his place could just shoot his cattle whenever they're found on land where they're not allowed.

Why this has dragged on so long, I'm not sure other than the unwillingness of the feds to create another public relations nightmare.

There's a guy doing something similar in East Texas. See: Anti-government 'sovereign movement' on the rise in U.S. ? USATODAY.com . He's been in a standoff for over a decade. No one wants to pull him out because the minor charges that caused him to imprison himself on his 50 acres are insufficient reason to bring on the bloodshed that's he's promised to cause. So a stalemate remains in place.

Whether it's east Texas or Nevada, I doubt the feds want to create any more martyrs.

 

[ElevenBravo]

this is happening not too far from me, so I get to hear a lot of news that isn't making it to the news outlets.

bundy said he'd pay the county, but the county refused the money since it's not county land he's grazing on. he doesn't recognize the US government as a legitimate entity, so he's not paying them and he thinks this justifies his continued use of BLM land without paying for it. He also said he'd resist if the Feds came in, so that's why BLM overreacted.

 

[matefrio]

Friend of a friend has told me he's good people. Got to realize that the .gov came in and grabbed a bunch of land from the western states.

Don't think the guy should have kicked the dog though.

 

[Polarbear6]

Is this the guy who believes he should be able to graze his cattle on public land for free?

There's a lot more to it than just that.

 

[Polarbear6]

I'm seeing posts on FB calling for fellow patriots in the area to grab your guns and head to the ranch and be ready to stand off against the sheriffs.

Here's an interesting thought. Say this is going on within 25 miles of where you live. Would you go and help either side, or would you just sit back and continue life as normal?

That is an "interesting" question. I like to think that I would

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Is this the guy who believes he should be able to graze his cattle on public land for free?

No, he's challenging Federal authority and regulations regarding grazing rights and use of public lands which stands in conflict with Nevada state law and the common law of his ancestors in the 1800's who settled the land. It's not the state or county he is in conflict with, what we commonly think of regarding public land, but the bologna that is the idea of Federal land.

 

[benenglish]

Say this is going on within 25 miles of where you live. Would you go and help either side, or would you just sit back and continue life as normal?

I would continue life as normal.

First off, the feds don't need my help. I've done my time.

On the other side of the coin,

...he doesn't recognize the US government as a legitimate entity, ...

and

He also said he'd resist if the Feds came in...

and

...he's challenging ... the idea of Federal land.

all add up to a self-deluding narcissist who has convinced himself that the policies and procedures enshrined in law since before he was born may simply be ignored by him because, well, he's special. He's righteous. He's the descendant of people who did certain things a long time ago so he has inherited the right to continue doing them, in perpetuity, like royalty. I don't know if he's asserted that he's a "sovereign man", not subject to the whims of collectivist fantasies like, oh, lessee, "the federal government" or "The United States of America" but if he hasn't I'd be surprised.

These are the sorts of principles he stands on.

Of course, it's just an amazing coincidence that he profits from his "principles".

I don't want to see any bloodshed but this is sure as hell a person I would NOT stand up for.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Great post as always, Ben....

 

[franzas]

This is just stupid. Ain't your land. Stay off it.
Informative posts as usual, Ben.


Edit:
I disagree with how the fed is handling this. I feel that the guy shouldn't ranch on land he doesn't own or lease. I don't hunt where I'm not supposed to, why would I thing ranching would be ok?

 

[matefrio]

This is just stupid. Ain't your land. Stay off it.
Informative posts as usual, Ben.

Premise is that it ain't the government's land either. They came in to save a turtle and ran him off land he'd been using. .gov shouldn't be able to grab land like that.

I wouldn't join in, this isn't my fight but I totally understand this guy.

 

[TexasR.N.]

It's bigger than just this rancher, I believe it is about greater govt control and a show of force. This video is from a town hall forum in the area, it's about 4 minutes long.

 

[benenglish]

Ain't your land. Stay off it.

Premise is that it ain't the government's land either. They came in to save a turtle and ran him off land he'd been using. .gov shouldn't be able to grab land like that.

It's not as simple as all that.

Taking off my "I am so fucking tired of dealing with people who think the law doesn't apply to them" blinders, I will concede that the tensions between western ranchers and the federal government go way back. Individual families have gotten ground up by federal law, to be sure.

In this case, as near as I can figure after I started researching it a few days ago, Bundy's grandfather paid someone some money back in the 1870s. All the news accounts and direct postings from his family come up short on exactly who he paid but Bundy believes what was purchased was a permanent right to use the land (never owned by the Bundy family) called Gold Butte, in the Mojave Desert.

Despite having inherited that (thus-far-inadequately-documented) right, for a very long time he paid BLM grazing fees pursuant to federal law. The most basic of those laws, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, actually pre-dates his birth. It's not like he didn't have a lot of warning that the federal government expected grazing fees to be paid.

Bundy decided, some decades ago, that the BLM was no longer serving his interests. (Note I said "his" interests, not the common or public interest.) For that reason he, in the words of his daughter, "fired" the BLM. He stopped paying fees. He says he offered the fees to a different government entity (the county) but that they wouldn't take them. (I wonder if he tries to pay his income taxes at the local traffic court, too? Makes as much sense.) So he simply pocketed the money and continued to run his cattle on public/federal land.

For years.

BLM talked, cajoled, and eventually sued for the fees. Some environmental issues came up in the meantime but I don't see them as decisive. Bundy had already run afoul of the law before the desert tortoise became a major point of contention. Finally, a federal court issued orders to the BLM to remove the cattle.

The BLM sat on their hands. When they made noises about removing the cattle, Bundy threatened violence.

When the case wound up back in court, a second order to remove the cattle was issued. BLM is apparently closing in on complying with that order, resulting in the recent escalation of tensions, news coverage, etc.

The over-arching issues of "Should the concept of federal land or public land even exist?", "States rights are being trampled!" and "Look at the poor everyman being hurt by the big, bad jackboots!" are not really a part of this conflict. They are convenient red herrings tossed out by a guy who has convinced himself (imo) that he morally owns land that he does not and it's not right for anyone to tell him any different.

If you've ever seen a pair of neighbors go insane at each other either because a fence was installed two inches off a property line or because one of them wants to correct that situation, you know the kind of unreasonable fury that can be created. I think the same mechanism, multiplied by a few million, is at work here.

If I've made any factual errors in the statements above, I implore readers to correct me.

This was a little less hyperbolic than my last post but my conclusion remains unchanged. This guy isn't worth standing up for. The principles he espouses are convenient (and very false) excuses for him to do what he wants without interference, without obeying the law.

 

[breakingcontact]

If we are actually going to talk about whats "moral" and not just legal then we are going to have to give back a lot of land to the Indians.

 

[benenglish]

This video is from a town hall forum in the area, it's about 4 minutes long.

Wow. Thanks for that. That video was wonderfully educational. I sincerely mean that.

The speaker, by the way, is one of the most talented rabble-rousers I've ever seen. He makes up a completely specious connection between Bundy and government overreach, declares it to be truth, and manages to extrapolate it all the way to snipers shooting the innocent, government-dictated food availability requirements, and Indian paintbrushes.

It takes talent like Picasso to draw all those lines in thin air and so capably convince the crowd they're real that he gets rewarded with more than a smattering of applause.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

wow