Are light rifle barrels inherently not accurate?

[Big Dipper]

Isn’t this discussion really about precision, not accuracy?

 

[MacZC7]

Where are there woodchucks in Texas?

 

[popsgarland]

Out chucking wood because most everyone wants to know...

how much wood a woodchuck can chuck is a woodchuck could chuck wood.

 

[oldag]

Isn’t this discussion really about precision, not accuracy?

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For a given precision, accuracy is merely a matter of adjusting the sights.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I’m guessing the shooter impacts accuracy more often than barrel type, but it’s just a guess.

 

[LeadChucker]

Not the ultimate or final guide but a good explanation of barrel harmonics

 

[candcallen]

If it wasn't for the barrels in their mini 14s the ATeam would have killed lots of bad guys.

Minute of jeep was ok for them.

 

[Axxe55]

I’m guessing the shooter impacts accuracy more often than barrel type, but it’s just a guess.

That's a given. I think a good comparison would be using a rest and a remote trigger device to eliminate as much human error from testing.

On an aside to this, the vast majority of factory rifles, regardless of barrel profile, are going to be way more accurate than the shooters using them.

 

[TheDan]

Not the ultimate or final guide but a good explanation of barrel harmonics

I find this stuff interesting in theory, but have no desire to do it in practice. I think it's more fun just seeing how you do with a rack grade rifle and cheap surplus ammo.

 

[cvgunman]

My Kimber Mountain Ascent has the light barrel. The whole rifle, minus the scope, is a mere 4 pound 13 ounces. Though extremely light, it is very accurate and precise. That said, it is not something that I will sit and shoot round after round as the barrel does heat up rather quickly. This was a purpose rifle when I got it. I wanted light for trekking around the mountains and would only be for initial sot and maybe a quick follow-up. When working up loads for it, it would get 3 shots and then a break to cool down. I have yet to fire more than four in succession to see how much it opens up. I am far from a marksmen, but I figured when I could cover a 3 shot group at 100 yards with a dime, it was good enough for me. With the Leupold VX6HD at 1.6 pounds, this is a light rifle, but a pleasure to tote around and doesn't kick like a mule.

 

[candcallen]

If it wasn't for the barrels in their mini 14s the ATeam would have killed lots of bad guys.

Minute of jeep was ok for them.

That's funny because, well I'm hilarious, but also because the first agency I worked for used Mini 14s. God I hated those bastards. You had to qualify from distance backwards cause the groups really open up the more you shoot and farther back you went, so much so many took 2 or 3 runs to qualify and needed down time between stages.

The year we went AR 15s, everyone qualified first time thru. I felt a lot better working under someone with an AR than a Mini 14. They could probably hit the first head but after that it's a crap shoot. I didnt wanna be in that crap.

That's partly the pencil barrel, partly the guns ballance makes it seem ass heavy and the front end floats during shooting.

ETA, I've watched film of riots in many states where mini 14s were used in prisons where the first 1 or 2 shots, actually aimed at a person, were head shots but they really got wild after that. That's partly because of the riot but partly cause that's the mini 14 pencil barrel. They get hot fast and accuracy went down hill fast.

I must say there were usually warning shots first before you start shooting guys unless you see a weapon or someone sneaking up on an officer during a fight or something. So you could be on round 5 quick.

Heavy barrel ARs are very repeatable for a long time, relatively speaking.

 

[Jeff Fox]

Engineering nerd. It's all about barrel harmonics and they change with temperature, barrel contour, and metallurgy. A light contour barrel is light because it it easier to hump. A light contour barrel harmonics is more finicky than medium or heavy contour barrels. Light contour barrel harmonics change more dramatically as it heats up. The first shot through a light contour barrel will consistently be dead-on if the barrel is allowed to cool between shots. Rifle shooters refer to this as the 'cold shot' and know the off-set compared to the follow-up shots. A heavy contour barrel is less affected by heat so the cold and subsequent shots will be normally have closer groups. A light contour barrel can be more finicky about ammunition for the same reason. If the pressure hits a light contour barrel at the wrong place it will throw shots very wide. On the other extreme is bench rest barrel which weighs between 10 and 20 pounds, just the barrel. They weigh so much and shoot light loads to reduce the harmonic variance. That said, humping a 17 pound gun around the woods, let alone shooting it off-hand, is a challenge. Fit the gun to the purpose. Good luck.

 

[Axxe55]

Engineering nerd. It's all about barrel harmonics and they change with temperature, barrel contour, and metallurgy. A light contour barrel is light because it it easier to hump. A light contour barrel harmonics is more finicky than medium or heavy contour barrels. Light contour barrel harmonics change more dramatically as it heats up. The first shot through a light contour barrel will consistently be dead-on if the barrel is allowed to cool between shots. Rifle shooters refer to this as the 'cold shot' and know the off-set compared to the follow-up shots. A heavy contour barrel is less affected by heat so the cold and subsequent shots will be normally have closer groups. A light contour barrel can be more finicky about ammunition for the same reason. If the pressure hits a light contour barrel at the wrong place it will throw shots very wide. On the other extreme is bench rest barrel which weighs between 10 and 20 ponds, just the barrel. They weigh so much and shoot light loads to reduce the harmonic variance. That said, humping a 17 pound gun around the woods, let alone shooting it off-hand, is a challenge. Fit the gun to the purpose. Good luck.

As a general rule, the more slender the barrel, the shorter the barrel to be able to deal with those harmonics better. Those rifles with very slender barrels are much easier to pack all day long going up and down hills and valleys. Those rifles are not typically chot a lot to begin with. If the hunter is a reloader, then most of it would have been during load development for the rifle. The majority of the other shooting done is usually just verifying the sighting of the scope. Such rifles are not usually very good range guns!

 

[cvgunman]

As a general rule, the more slender the barrel, the shorter the barrel to be able to deal with those harmonics better. Those rifles with very slender barrels are much easier to pack all day long going up and down hills and valleys. Those rifles are not typically chot a lot to begin with. If the hunter is a reloader, then most of it would have been during load development for the rifle. The majority of the other shooting done is usually just verifying the sighting of the scope. Such rifles are not usually very good range guns!

That's how mine is. I actually have a friend that has a 280 ackley imp. as well, and said he'd work up some loads. I supplied him the materials (re-supplied some of his). He ended up making me 200 rds, which will last me my lifetime with this rifle. It was shot more in load development than it has been since.

 

[pronstar]

ETA, I've watched film of riots in many states where mini 14s were used in prisons where the first 1 or 2 shots, actually aimed at a person, were head shots but they really got wild after that. That's partly because of the riot but partly cause that's the mini 14 pencil barrel. They get hot fast and accuracy went down hill fast.

I must say there were usually warning shots first before you start shooting guys unless you see a weapon or someone sneaking up on an officer during a fight or something. So you could be on round 5 quick.

Heavy barrel ARs are very repeatable for a long time, relatively speaking.

Interesting, this is the first I can recall reading about warning shots as SOP.

But it makes sense in a prison environment.


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[candcallen]

Interesting, this is the first I can recall reading about warning shots as SOP.

But it makes sense in a prison environment.


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Warning shots, like shooting at or from moving vehicles, is something that changed almost yearly for some states and agencies. Usually depending on something they got sued for the year prior. Like killing some innocent driver picking up a hitchhiker not knowing he was an escaped inmate and an officer opend fire on the fleeing vehicle. California if I remember correctly. Cali also shot lots of inmates without warning shots for a while.

In a riot, racking a shotgun or the bolt of a rifle over a loud speaker was sometimes enough to stop stuff quick. I've fired knee knockers and gas between two groups getting ready to fight cause that's what I had handy. One round is usually enough to stop stuff if it goes that far.

You're not going to be actually shooting people till you see deadly force even though technically, depending on the state and if you're dealing with convicts and not pre convictions prisoners, the riot buys them the full ride. Ofcourse there are pages and pages of policy on when deadly force is legal depending on custody level and situation like out side work crews etc.

When I tested and promoted I had a 6 foot tall stake of policy and procedures to memorize. Before computers made that stuff easy to access. 90 percent was advanced use of force riots escape chase police powers etc. Its worse now. Every year more lawyers add more shit to learn and paperwork to do. I'm glad I'm not doing that any more.

TlDR..ya warning shots in prison can be useful if applied appropriately.

 

[A1Oni]

My thoughts used to be that a heavy barrel's extra mass kept it more stable while aiming: it was less affected by wind or a nervous shooter. It would be less likely to warp or bend with rough handling. It would be less likely to bulge with hotter loads. A heavy barrel also dissipates heat faster than thin-walled barrel. A hot barrel is detrimental to groups. The rising mirage can distort your sight picture. Intuition might also have me believe that a heavy barrel vibrates less when fired. I would think vibrations throw bullets off course. I would think a heavy barrel for a sniper rifle or a long-range varmint barrel to be par for the course. Why were HBAR barrels so popular on so many AR type rifles? Long range accuracy with a flat-top pic-rail-mounted scope?

This man tries to debunk the so-called light-barrel sloppy-shooting lie:

barrel thickness only matters if you are shooting a fuckton of rounds and it heats the danged thing up, and with modern materials available pencil barrels are a good choice unless you are doing some 6MM PPC bench rest shooter and at that point it really doesnt matter considering those are mostly bolt guns anyway. a free floated pencil barrel made of good quality materials and rifled correctly will be as accurate or even more accurate than a heavy profile barrel and its like less heavy if you gotta lug the son of a bitch around.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Ford
Dodge
Chevy

 

[TreyG-20]

Yes it's not that accurate

You're on a roll.

 

[benenglish]

On the other extreme is bench rest barrel which weighs between 10 and 20 pounds, just the barrel. They weigh so much and shoot light loads to reduce the harmonic variance.

Not really. With the near universal adoption of adjustable harmonic dampers, benchrest barrels have gotten lighter and more accurate. And as for light loads for benchrest? That makes me smile. The proportion of benchrest shooters who have ruined brass (i.e. had primers falling out) while chasing a higher node is approximately 100%. Benchresters often shoot really hot loads if that's what their rifle likes.

I do miss the days of Unlimited Benchrest when people would field rifles where the barrel was tensioned inside a sleeve (kind of like a Dan Wesson interchangeable-barrel revolver, but on a massive scale) and the rifle might weigh 150 pounds with just the sleeved barrel making up 90% of that.