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Are "No Knock Warrants" justified and are they worth the risk?

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  • breakingcontact

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    I just read about a Texas officer killed during a search warrant execution. Details are sketchy but the shooter claims the officers didnt knock/announce so he shot the people breaking into his home.

    My sympathy goes out to the slain officer and his family.

    Are no knock warrants good policing? Do they put the officers lives at increased risk or provide them the element of surprise and give them more safety?
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    txinvestigator

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    That is a fair question; one even the people conducting the warrants are asking. They do serve a purpose. Typically they are dynamic, fast and safe. The surprise element allows officers to dominate a structure before weapons can be obtained by occupants and overwhelmingly that prevents injuries and deaths to many suspects and officers. Tragically, not always.

    Are there other ways to conduct these warrants? Of course. The effectiveness if those alternative methods is the root question.

    Depertments do not conduct these with little thought. Risks vs benefit must be weighed. Without access to raw data it is impossible to make a definitive call on these. I would hope each department weighs the decision on these individually and with the weight deserved.

    For this particular incident not enough is known to even make an uneducated guess.....
     

    breakingcontact

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    I agree regarding this case, not discussing it but it prompted the question.

    You mentioned weapons, i understand that goes hand in hand with drugs but from what ive read the justification is to stop people from destroying the drugs.

    Im curious about how much discretion the judges have giving these warrants?

    Can you get a flash bang through your window tonight for a warrant for unpaid parking tickets?
     

    txinvestigator

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    No, since I have no unpaid parking tickets.

    Seriously, though, there are judicial guidelines for the issuance of no knocks. I would have to do some research to find that.

    And yes, some are issued to prevent the destruction of evidence. I disagree with that for drug evidence ONLY.
     

    Mexican_Hippie

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    I think they're a valuable tool to be used sparingly and with very well reasoned situational judgment (and judicial oversight).

    Whether or not that's how they're used is up for debate though. I don't have any data to debate the mis/application one way or the other.
     

    mikeofcontex

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    I don't know if the OP is referencing the recent one that was for the wrong dwelling. A LEO lost his life and the homeowner is in a lot of trouble and the warrant was executed at the wrong address.
     

    1slow01Z71

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    Are you talking about the one in College Station last week? If so the guy who did the shooting is a friend of a friend. No telling what the real story is but from the account I heard it sounds like the officer got what he deserved if the guy's account of the story is the real one. I wasn't there so Ill withhold judgment. I do not believe no knock warrants for a guy with two marijuana plants and legal guns is cause for the execution of a no knock warrant if youre talking about the same case.

    Cop Killed While Serving a ?No-Knock? Warrant to a Man Suspected of Growing a Plant | The Free Thought Project
     
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    JSF

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    I can see how they can be very useful but I hate to think how it would go if I was watchin tv and someone kicked in my door......like most here I have a loaded pistol in arms reach at all times......very scary thought

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    breakingcontact

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    Are you talking about the one in College Station last week? If so the guy who did the shooting is a friend of a friend. No telling what the real story is but from the account I heard it sounds like the officer got what he deserved if the guy's account of the story is the real one. I wasn't there so Ill withhold judgment. I do not believe no knock warrants for a guy with two marijuana plants and legal guns is cause for the execution of a no knock warrant if youre talking about the same case.

    Cop Killed While Serving a ?No-Knock? Warrant to a Man Suspected of Growing a Plant | The Free Thought Project

    Yes that is the one.
     

    1slow01Z71

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    According to my best friend who is actual friends with the guy, he(the shooter) said he heard someone trying to break in so he got his gun(cant remember if it was a pistol or rifle) and he fired a warning shot through the ceiling(sounds weird to me) then the door broke open and he shot. Once he realized it was an officer he dropped the gun and they took him into custody. Apparently someone he knows turned him in for having a big growing operation to try and get out of a ticket. The guy is a pothead but he had TWO marijuana plants, that's it. He wasn't a dealer, only gave some to some friends and for his own consumption. The guns they found in the house were his and his sisters.

    Again, who knows if that is really how it went down but IF it did then the officer has no one to blame but himself if he barged in AFTER he heard a shot. At that point its time to back off and regroup. I don't condone the no knock warrants anyway because if someone came barging into my house lead would fly too. LEOs need to identify themselves, they have swat teams and armor if they are really worried about getting shot. Otherwise there will be more and more stories like this as people get more weary about crime.

    I don't know the guy personally, I bought my german shepherd off of him so I have no skin in the game. IF it went down like the guy says then it was a bad bust period. Ill wait to see what the official police rendition of the altercation is but being that it was a no knock warrant Id say the police need to expect that kind of response and not send someone in first that isn't protected. Just because people don't know the attack by the police is coming doesn't mean they don't have a firearm near by to protect themselves.

    I feel sorry for the cops family but they should know what theyre getting themselves into.
     

    breakingcontact

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    Back to the issue...no nock warrants issued without lots of actual evidence and cause are probably dangerous and perhaps rare? TXI?

    Cops and humans in general do stupid things because they want to be right. Like the WI cop doing rogue anal searches but maybe he was just a creep.
     
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    JSF

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    ^TLDR satire: bought pitbull from drug kingpin who killed cop

    Back to the issue...no nock warrants issued without lots of actual evidence and cause are probably dangerous and perhaps rare? TXI?

    Cops and humans in general do stupid things because they want to be right. Like the WI cop doing rogue anal searches but maybe he was just a creep.

    That first line made me lol

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    vmax

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    there is a classic example of the OPs question in Abilene this year.

    no knock warrant at a gold buying business on the freeway for paperwork reporting violations.

    officers swarmed in, the owner was legally armed, and I think he thought he was being robbed.

    He has a cash for gold business on a major US highway, I would be armed also.

    He drew, the cops drew and killed him and this all happened in under 5 seconds I am told according to the surveillance video. The family of the dead man is suing the PD and the City.
     

    breakingcontact

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    there is a classic example of the OPs question in Abilene this year.

    no knock warrant at a gold buying business on the freeway for paperwork reporting violations.

    officers swarmed in, the owner was legally armed, and I think he thought he was being robbed.

    He has a cash for gold business on a major US highway, I would be armed also.

    He drew, the cops drew and killed him and this all happened in under 5 seconds I am told according to the surveillance video. The family of the dead man is suing the PD and the City.

    Link to story?
     

    1slow01Z71

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    there is a classic example of the OPs question in Abilene this year.

    no knock warrant at a gold buying business on the freeway for paperwork reporting violations.

    officers swarmed in, the owner was legally armed, and I think he thought he was being robbed.

    He has a cash for gold business on a major US highway, I would be armed also.

    He drew, the cops drew and killed him and this all happened in under 5 seconds I am told according to the surveillance video. The family of the dead man is suing the PD and the City.
    And they should be rich beyond their wildest dreams because of it if those are the facts. I see no reason for a no knock warrant period. It is way too dangerous to the person the warrant is being executed on who may or may not be a criminal. Youre essentially allowing the PD to be the judge, jury and executioner. There is no due process with a no knock warrant if youre defending yourself. They've got more people and firepower than you so youre dead. Total BS.
     

    vmax

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    And they should be rich beyond their wildest dreams because of it if those are the facts. I see no reason for a no knock warrant period. It is way too dangerous to the person the warrant is being executed on who may or may not be a criminal. Youre essentially allowing the PD to be the judge, jury and executioner. There is no due process with a no knock warrant if youre defending yourself. They've got more people and firepower than you so youre dead. Total BS.

    so far all we were told is that the Rangers investigated the shooting. but all of that evidence is kept away from the public
    now that the law suit has been filed, we may all get to see the video and what happened to the poor bastard.

    A guy who ran a business right next door said he saw an unmarked car roll up and lots of (what he later found out was cops) and they ran into the building with guns drawn and he heard yelling right away and then the gun shots all within a couple of seconds.

    No matter what comes of the lawsuit, the PD didn't think this one through
     
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