"Are you US citizens"

[easy rider]

Pretty soon the Constitution will only be valid in a small patch of land in a Nebraska corn field...with a fence around it.


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Been there, if you would like to see it you had better go before the fence is built.

 

[diesel1959]

Since U.S. v. Martinez-Fuerte

Well, at least that covers the 4th. If you're a citizen, you've still got your 5th but it's not of much use while CBP dismantles your car to teach you a lesson.

And asking a citizen if they're a citizen is anything but inculpatory. Asking a non-citizen whether they're a citizen is not problematic as they have VERY FEW rights under the Constitution unless and until they're already under arrest.

 

[benenglish]

And asking a citizen if they're a citizen is anything but inculpatory.

I agree completely. I also expect to be asked that question when crossing the border...assuming that I'm slow in handing someone my passport. (Once they see the passport, actually asking the question is a bit redundant.) I just, in general, don't like the notion of being required to answer random questions from LEOs when I'm simply driving from one place to another without crossing a border.

And to get in before those who want to split hairs with fringe legal theories, yes, I consider that I am "required" to answer the question in practical terms. I honestly see no value in showing my ass to CBP personnel just because they're doing a job task that I think they shouldn't be doing.

 

[diesel1959]

I agree completely. I also expect to be asked that question when crossing the border...assuming that I'm slow in handing someone my passport. (Once they see the passport, actually asking the question is a bit redundant.) I just, in general, don't like the notion of being required to answer random questions from LEOs when I'm simply driving from one place to another without crossing a border.

And to get in before those who want to split hairs with fringe legal theories, yes, I consider that I am "required" to answer the question in practical terms. I honestly see no value in showing my ass to CBP personnel just because they're doing a job task that I think they shouldn't be doing.

I'm with you, Ben. I don't think the "flavor" is all that great, but it's CBP's barbeque and SCOTUS seems to think it tastes good. (How's that for a Con Air reference. )

 

[Army 1911]

Just hand them a note saying you are a mute. Then when they want you to write the answer, have someone in the car say you are blind too. This is real fun if you are driving.

 

[Kar98]

And asking a citizen if they're a citizen is anything but inculpatory. Asking a non-citizen whether they're a citizen is not problematic as they have VERY FEW rights under the Constitution unless and until they're already under arrest.

Ah... no. Rights spelled out in the Constitution are for "the people". Only where it specifically says "citizen" is a right restricted to citizens of the US. Otherwise, legal permanent residents have all the same rights as US citizens do, the right to vote and to run for office being the biggest exception.

 

[TheDan]

Well technically they are inalienable natural rights that everyone has, however it's only reasonable for the US government to protect those rights within it's own borders.

 

[Kar98]

I see no contradiction there.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

Apparently not in San Antonio!

Back in 1985 I was driving across the southern edge of the country when I happened upon one of these checkpoints. I stopped and the first question I was asked was, "Where were you born?" I answered honestly, "In Germany;" to which the next question was "Are you a U.S. citizen?" "Well," I replied, "I'm in the United States Air Force!"

I was waved through at that point, but I wonder if they knew that you don't have to be an American citizen to serve in the USAF!

True, being a citizen is not mandantory, but an alien armed forces member is considered a legal alien.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

About 20 years back, went through the one East of Eagle Pass. Young agent didn't think it was funny when I answered: "That's what my passport says".
NO sense of humor.

 

[Kar98]

True, being a citizen is not mandantory, but an alien armed forces member is considered a legal alien.

Or rather, to be a member of the US armed forces, you have to be in the country legally to begin with. Serving in the US military doesn't confer any kind of legal immigration status by itself.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

Or rather, to be a member of the US armed forces, you have to be in the country legally to begin with. Serving in the US military doesn't confer any kind of legal immigration status by itself.

No. you do not have to be in the US at all to become a member of the US armed forces. You can enlist abroad first. Takes longer to do all the paperwork that way.

 

[TheDan]

I see no contradiction there.

What's the contradiction? The US government is only bound by the Constitution to protect the enumerated rights within it's own borders. It doesn't have to, and shouldn't for many reasons, try to protect those rights in other sovereign countries.

 

[Kar98]

I see no contradiction there.

 

[TheDan]

oh, haha... sorry

 

[sdismukes]

What's the contradiction? The US government is only bound by the Constitution to protect the enumerated rights within it's own borders. It doesn't have to, and shouldn't for many reasons, try to protect those rights in other sovereign countries.

Home ported in Sasebo Japan, one of our sailors was bodily evicted ass over elbows from a locals-only bar. There are few on this planet who are as bigoted towards blacks as the Japanese. Sailor wanted the bar declared off limits as his constitutional rights were violated . C.O. advised the sailor his Constitutional rights stopped at the main gate. After that he was under Japanese laws (and Status of Forces agreement, but the skipper didn't go there).

In truth he was so drunk he didn't know he had left sailor town and was into areas any aware sailor knew was 'inappropriate' to be in.

I can sorta imagine what his attitude was when he went in and was asked to leave...the eviction came rather shortly thereafter!!


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[benenglish]

There are few on this planet who are as bigoted towards blacks as the Japanese.

QFT

 

[smittyb]

Home ported in Sasebo Japan, one of our sailors was bodily evicted ass over elbows from a locals-only bar. There are few on this planet who are as bigoted towards blacks as the Japanese. Sailor wanted the bar declared off limits as his constitutional rights were violated . C.O. advised the sailor his Constitutional rights stopped at the main gate. After that he was under Japanese laws (and Status of Forces agreement, but the skipper didn't go there).

In truth he was so drunk he didn't know he had left sailor town and was into areas any aware sailor knew was 'inappropriate' to be in.

I can sorta imagine what his attitude was when he went in and was asked to leave...the eviction came rather shortly thereafter!!


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Sasebo sucked all the way around.
That is all.

 

[easy rider]

Home ported in Sasebo Japan, one of our sailors was bodily evicted ass over elbows from a locals-only bar. There are few on this planet who are as bigoted towards blacks as the Japanese. Sailor wanted the bar declared off limits as his constitutional rights were violated . C.O. advised the sailor his Constitutional rights stopped at the main gate. After that he was under Japanese laws (and Status of Forces agreement, but the skipper didn't go there).

In truth he was so drunk he didn't know he had left sailor town and was into areas any aware sailor knew was 'inappropriate' to be in.

I can sorta imagine what his attitude was when he went in and was asked to leave...the eviction came rather shortly thereafter!!


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Well acquainted with Sasebo, Yokosuka had a few places like that as well. I remember hearing the "no gaijin" at many places.

 

[pronstar]

Lots of places in Tokyo/Rappongi are "Japanese only" as well.

Nothing like waiting in a cab line and having cab after cab peel away empty as soon as round-eyes needs a lift.

It's an extremely homogenous society.


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