Ares Arms, a different prespective

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  • gcmj45acp

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    In the discussions about the ATF raiding Ares Armor, has anyone seen these images? As much as I want to support Ares Armor, it looks as if they manufactured a 100% lower, filled it with different color polymer and called it 80%. If that is in fact what they did, that's a problem. And having dealt with an ATF case in the past, it may be that they want the customer names for the purposes of having those customers turn those lowers in without penalty because the customers are not the ones who have committed a crime if the ATF allegations are true.

    AresArms80percent.jpg
    Ares-Polymer-Lower.jpg
     

    wakal

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    Ares doesn't make lowers.

    The company that does make those lowers casts the lower AROUND the trigger group odd-colored block... First, the odd colored core is cast. Then the molds for the lower...which hold the block in place...are fitted to the block and the complete lower is cast around it. When you look at them in person, you can see the clamp marks from the molds on the trigger block extension. Very clever.

    The folks who actually make those were raided a few weeks ago.
     

    Kennydale

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    The fact that the BATF Ignored a restraining order (If Signed by A Judge, it should have been followed) tells me the BATF was fishing. They supposedly had a meeting set up, but that did not matter to our wonderful benevolent Government (Yes that's SARCASM). I am sure Ares Armor was not going to start destroying records, or hiding inventory. The total disregard for the law rests in the hands of the Government agents. IN the USA your are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Ares when they woke up this morning found out they were time transported to (pick Your Historical Tyrannical Government).
     

    gcmj45acp

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    Our current understanding is that the same judge who issued the restraining order, rescinded the order, allowing the BATFE to execute the warrants in question. They may indeed be fishing but, it doesn't look like the warrants were executed in violation of any standing order.

    EP Armory's molding of an 80% receiver around a plug versus molding a plug into a 100% receiver seems like something the BATFE would consider splitting hairs. Having said that, I've heard references of EP Armory being challenged by the ATF on this issue before and ultimately being exonerated. May be that will be the case this time around.
     

    bones_708

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    The fact that the BATF Ignored a restraining order (If Signed by A Judge, it should have been followed) tells me the BATF was fishing. They supposedly had a meeting set up, but that did not matter to our wonderful benevolent Government (Yes that's SARCASM). I am sure Ares Armor was not going to start destroying records, or hiding inventory. The total disregard for the law rests in the hands of the Government agents. IN the USA your are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Ares when they woke up this morning found out they were time transported to (pick Your Historical Tyrannical Government).


    The problem is just about everything you say is wrong. Sure they got a restraining order because they said the warrant filed for EP had misinformation. Guess what BATFE files for a new warrant with a change in language then BOOM no more restraining order. So no disregard for law, since they, BATFE, is following the law ranting on about the rule of law seems strange. Innocent until proven guilty? They didn't even arrest anyone yet. Or are you saying there must be a trial before they can arrest or size evidence? That is just crazy. Whatever you are going on about seems to have little relation to this incident.
     

    Acera

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    I get what Kennydale is saying about Innocent until proven guilty bones. It is a common term first used by English lawyer Sir William Garrow as a more direct approach to the 'Presumed innocent until proven guilty' concept a couple centuries ago. We all know that if a person commits a crime they are guilty of that crime, it just a statement that the burden of proof is not on the accused but on the accuser to prove it in court. Unfortunately once you are officially accused of a crime the rules change in how you are treated.
     

    Ranger60

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding was that companies such as Tactical Machining obtain an ATF letter first regarding their 80% lowers, basically an OK, it's a paperweight. I have heard, and again, correct me, that ARES did not obtain a letter, thus came under scrutiny/
     

    bones_708

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    I get what Kennydale is saying about Innocent until proven guilty bones. It is a common term first used by English lawyer Sir William Garrow as a more direct approach to the 'Presumed innocent until proven guilty' concept a couple centuries ago. We all know that if a person commits a crime they are guilty of that crime, it just a statement that the burden of proof is not on the accused but on the accuser to prove it in court. Unfortunately once you are officially accused of a crime the rules change in how you are treated.

    But no one has even been arrested. They are not being treated as guilty yet. So saying things about that presumption seems off point.
     

    bones_708

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding was that companies such as Tactical Machining obtain an ATF letter first regarding their 80% lowers, basically an OK, it's a paperweight. I have heard, and again, correct me, that ARES did not obtain a letter, thus came under scrutiny/

    Yes and no. Most companies do get a letter but it is in no way required just industry norm. Ares doesn't manufacture the lower so it's not them that would get the letter but EP armory who is the manufacturer of the lower but they, even after being told the BATFE thought the lower was a firearm, still made and sold the item. Now EP and Ares may win in the end but there is no doubt that it's going to court and that is who should be deciding things, a court.
     
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