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Army First Lieutenant Clint Lorance

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  • Anthony Provenzano

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    Oct 15, 2013
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    Stop spreading lies

    I'd just heard about this about 30 minutes ago on Facebook. I'm posting two links. I have no other information regarding this, but right now my head could explode.

    Allen West: Obama's Military Contempt - The Outrageous Treatment of Clint Lorance - Fox Nation

    Obama's War on America: The Monstrous Prosecution of Lt. Clint Lorance - Atlas Shrugs


    Hey man, don't believe everything you hear. Especially when it comes to politicians. Allen West is a dishonorable man who is using lies to work people up into a frenzy and further his own image. I did some digging and found an article from the Fayetteville Observer, the newspaper local to Ft. Bragg, where this soldier would have been stationed out of given that he was an 82d Airborne officer. This presents the case in a WHOLE new light and I think deserves some serious consideration. Let me know what you think.

    Army first lieutenant found guilty of murder, other charges for actions in Afghanistan
     

    TreyG-20

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    Interesting. Although from that third article, he sounds pretty guilty. I wasn't there so I have no right to say either way.
     

    Texan-in-Training

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    Let me know what you think.
    Well to start, I think you could be a little more civil in choosing your words. Considering what you have to say about LTC West though, I doubt that's going to happen.
    Thank you for the link to the Fayetteville Observer article. Does sound pretty damning for the LT. I did notice that the comments, which I would assume are more local to the area than not, are split roughly 50-50 as to guilt versus innocence. (One predominant "guilty" voice appears to believe that 9/11 was an "inside job", and falls more into the John Kerry "They're all baby killers" crowd.)
    Back to my original post, I said "I have no other information regarding this...". My primary reason for posting was to draw attention to the possibility that one of our warfighters that daily risk their lives for us, may have been "scape-goated" to serve a political agenda.
    I have either been in the military or been working around the military for the better part of my working life, and I have seen both "scape-goats" and the guilty walk free. It all depended on who was pushing an agenda.
    And welcome to Texas Gun Talk from Rockdale, Texas.
     

    karlac

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    I said "I have no other information regarding this...". My primary reason for posting was to draw attention to the possibility that one of our warfighters that daily risk their lives for us, may have been "scape-goated" to serve a political agenda.
    I have either been in the military or been working around the military for the better part of my working life, and I have seen both "scape-goats" and the guilty walk free. It all depended on who was pushing an agenda.

    Agree. But, seven months as CO of a combat unit, two months as a Military Judge in a court martial; and after reading both sides, my gut tells me that Lorance most likely got what he deserved.

    Where were his NCO's in all this?
     

    Texan-in-Training

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    Agree. But, seven months as CO of a combat unit, two months as a Military Judge in a court martial; and after reading both sides, my gut tells me that Lorance most likely got what he deserved.

    Where were his NCO's in all this?
    The only mention of an NCO that I could find was in a related article, also in the Observer.
    Soldiers testify at court-martial that leader ordered shootings
    Looks like the LT was five days into his combat command when this took place.
     

    karlac

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    The only mention of an NCO that I could find was in a related article, also in the Observer.
    Soldiers testify at court-martial that leader ordered shootings
    Looks like the LT was five days into his combat command when this took place.

    Hate to be second guessing, but in a combat unit it used to be SOP to insure there were seasoned NCO's with young, inexperienced officers. Strange also, and as far as the reporting goes, that apparently the chain of command did not go to bat for the young man? Then again, it ain't your father's military.
     

    shortround

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    From all I have read, the troops reported the Lieutenant for violating the rules of engagement, for making false reports, and other acts of improper conduct.

    Troops don't normally report their officers for misconduct unless the outfit has a bad command climate, a climate which could reach all the way from platoon to division.

    Not long ago, the assistant division commander of the 82d Airborne Division (BG Sinclair) was to be tried by Court Martial for numerous violations of the UCMJ, including sexual assault (formerly rape and sodomy).

    Now, The Stars and Stripes reports: "Brig. Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair’s trial was set to begin Sept. 30, but has been rescheduled for Jan. 7."

    This has nothing to do with Obama, but with a corrupted cabal of senior leadership in the United States Army.
     

    shooterfpga

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    Hate to be second guessing, but in a combat unit it used to be SOP to insure there were seasoned NCO's with young, inexperienced officers. Strange also, and as far as the reporting goes, that apparently the chain of command did not go to bat for the young man? Then again, it ain't your father's military.

    It still operates the same way today and also the same way in garrison when it comes to grooming LTs. This unfortunately sounds like a gung ho fresh LT. Sorry but a lot of the things that make sense on a lower level element will land you in jail. Remember, we are soldiers and professionals, its a thin balance. but just remember never go full hooah.
     

    Anthony Provenzano

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    Well to start, I think you could be a little more civil in choosing your words. Considering what you have to say about LTC West though, I doubt that's going to happen.
    Thank you for the link to the Fayetteville Observer article. Does sound pretty damning for the LT. I did notice that the comments, which I would assume are more local to the area than not, are split roughly 50-50 as to guilt versus innocence. (One predominant "guilty" voice appears to believe that 9/11 was an "inside job", and falls more into the John Kerry "They're all baby killers" crowd.)
    Back to my original post, I said "I have no other information regarding this...". My primary reason for posting was to draw attention to the possibility that one of our warfighters that daily risk their lives for us, may have been "scape-goated" to serve a political agenda.
    I have either been in the military or been working around the military for the better part of my working life, and I have seen both "scape-goats" and the guilty walk free. It all depended on who was pushing an agenda.
    And welcome to Texas Gun Talk from Rockdale, Texas.

    I actually was pretty careful in choosing my words. Calling LTC West out like that wasn't a personal attack, it's very plain to figure out. The first thing I did was check on the story myself, though I actually remember it coming out back at the very end of July and beginning of August. It made the news on ABC as well as a couple other stations, was reported by the Huffington Post, AP, the Guardian, the Daily Mail, as well as a number of other outlets, making it international news to be quite fair. It was even put out in print by the Washington Post in which it made the front page. (See link:)
    Army officer is convicted in deaths of 2 Afghans)

    How can he say it hasn't been covered by a single major media source in his recent article (link below)? It's a bold lie.
    (Obama's military contempt: The outrageous treatment of Clint Lorance | Washington Times Communities)

    Also by reading the different sides of the story such as the article I linked in an earlier post or the defendant's own website (Lt. Clint Lorance | Defend Our Soldier) you can pretty much just use some common sense. His website claims that the "scouts" were reported by helicopters overhead but the helicopter pilot in question testified that she didn't arrive until after the engagement. Another huge discrepancy on the defendant's website alone is the statement that the local population had left but then a later statement on the same page says that he was afraid that women and children were nearby and didn't want collateral damage. So then he ordered "two long-range precision shots" from a gun truck. Are you serious? Those things are equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers. You want to tell me that a 240 or 50 Cal made those shots? Because I find that ridiculously unbelievable. The courtroom testimony that was reported by the Fayetteville Observer stated no weapon or equipment was found on the bodies of the two men he was accused of murdering and he was also charged with obstruction of justice for trying to cover up the incident and lying about what happened. Seeing that he was only the second officer found guilty and sentenced for murder on the battlefield in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, I would say the evidence against him was damning. As for the commentators, I wouldn't listen to any random person who is unwilling to do a little bit of independent research as I have, especially considering some of the crazy crap they spew. I scrolled through some of the comments on Allen West's Facebook post regarding the incident and found plenty of that insanity, with well over 90% of them favoring the version West portrayed. The mob mentality lacks a certain sense of reason, so I disregard them. It's clear Mr. West is simply pushing his own agenda and disregarding the simple truths that are out there for ANYONE to find, if you're willing to look a little. That's just my two cents. I have served my time as well and am a combat veteran so I'm knowledgeable about how the military works to some extent. I appreciate you welcoming me to the community. Let me know what you think.
     

    Rooster6

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    Interesting article from the observer. However, having served in combat, it is highly unlikely that a platoon sergeant or squad leader would give the order to fire on an unarmed noncombatant. Further, it is highly unlikely that the platoon sergeant wasn't required to give testimony in this trial. I wasn't there, but things don't ad up. There's more to this story...
     
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