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  • Jon Payne

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    DK Firearms
     

    IndyDave1776

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    I am not a LEO, but for some reason I get to sit in a lot of Police cars. I try to explain that the damned motorcycle is turning me into a criminal and they let me warm up a while before sending me on my way. They also provide useful information about the best place to eat. Truckers can no longer be trusted. Have you seen the bellies on those guys?
    In fairness to the truckers, myself included, the options available to us which are accessible in terms of parking are getting worse every day. Once upon a time there was a mom and pop truck stop at every exit featuring in most cases at least a presentable meal and often some really good food. Now, in most cases we either get fast food shoved up our assess or do without
     

    IndyDave1776

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    I completely disagree with you about him. It also appears you don't know nearly as much as you think


    #1, the Texas Penal Code does not have a Section 545.
    #2. I have done the research, and traffic enforcement does not generate positive revenue in the overwhelming majority of cases. There are some small towns in Texas that make a profit from it, but a very small percentage.
    #3. If you meant to refer to section 545 of the Texas Transportation Code, then please enlighten us as to what part of "Operation and Movement of Vehicles" refers to illegal traffic citations.

    :laughing::roflfunny:
    The positive revenue thing can be subject to a lot of shenanigans. I once spoke with a state trooper operating an unmarked nontraditional vehicle. He said that in a typical 10 1/2 hour shift he writes approximately 60 tickets ( worth about $150 each)(I have watched this crew work and they are easily staying under 10 minutes per stop and in some cases don't even turn their lights off before leaving one and pouncing the next). ISP can make a claim that appears on the surface as if it is revenue negative since they get less than $10 per ticket; However, the fine money going to the counties offsets money that the state would otherwise be giving the counties, so in reality it is revenue positive even though they can play games to make it look revenue negative.

    Math time:

    60 tickets at $150 per day is $9000.

    $9000 per day is $45,000 per week.

    $45K per week for 48 weeks ( allowing 4 weeks vacation which the state does NOT give) is $2,160,000 per year.

    Now, if we allow $75K for the officer, $15K to cover one half of the cost of the car, and I will be really generous and allow $100 per day for gasoline ($24K for the year), and $10 per ticket for the courthouse staffer handling the ticket ($144K per year), after these high estimates of expenses (258K total), we are left with a meager $1,902,000 to the good--for one officer.

    Please explain how we are expected to believe there is no profit here.
     
    Last edited:

    IndyDave1776

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    0.
    (Sixty) 15 minute tickets, is 15 hours, isn't it?
    All during a 10.5 hour shift?
    Does that include a lunch break?
    Thew way Indiana does it, they do get a 30 minute lunch but are also paid for it on day they work whether they actually stop or not, but do not get paid for it on vacation, sick, or comp days. This officer did not specify whether he stopped himself or not. It was explained to me when I worked for the DOC that our pay setup was modeled on ISP which is why we got paid 15 minutes for roll call, 30 minutes for lunch, but had to work 43.5 hours before receiving overtime pay.

    On that time per stop, I fat-fingered the 2 rather than 1, as I also did once trying to correct the error. They are allowed to detain people in a traffic stop a maximum of 15 minutes without an arrest or a search executed for legally acceptable reasons. On the quest for tickets they can easily get done in less than 10 minutes.
     

    Younggun

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    Nobody is running tickets like that 5 days a week.


    There are speed traps set up from time to time, but to do that math as a 5 day per week, 52 week per year equation is unreasonable. At least for anywhere I’ve ever been in Texas.


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    IndyDave1776

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    Nobody is running tickets like that 5 days a week.


    There are speed traps set up from time to time, but to do that math as a 5 day per week, 52 week per year equation is unreasonable. At least for anywhere I’ve ever been in Texas.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We have a group of troopers whose entire purpose is a circuit-riding speed trap. They move from metro area to metro area making the loop three or four times a year, returning after people get complacent. Not every cop does this, within ISP it used to be 200 contacts per month per officer were mandatory for junior officers with fully marked cars. Regular plain wrappers were 400, and the crew I am discussing had a minimum of 600 per month. The numbers in all cases have been increased since I received good numbers but I don't know by how much. I will also point out that making minimum is not a guarantee to hold your place. In the top group, you can get bumped down if someone in a class below you is showing better performance. It is a coveted position.
     

    txinvestigator

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    We have a group of troopers whose entire purpose is a circuit-riding speed trap. They move from metro area to metro area making the loop three or four times a year, returning after people get complacent. Not every cop does this, within ISP it used to be 200 contacts per month per officer were mandatory for junior officers with fully marked cars. Regular plain wrappers were 400, and the crew I am discussing had a minimum of 600 per month. The numbers in all cases have been increased since I received good numbers but I don't know by how much. I will also point out that making minimum is not a guarantee to hold your place. In the top group, you can get bumped down if someone in a class below you is showing better performance. It is a coveted position.


    I didn't study budgets in any state but Texas. Traffic enforcement costs more than it generates. Many tickets are dismissed, given deferrals, defensive driving, etc.

    And I don't believe anyone is averaging 60 tickets a shift. Even 60 contacts is doubtful.
     

    txinvestigator

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    The positive revenue thing can be subject to a lot of shenanigans. I once spoke with a state trooper operating an unmarked nontraditional vehicle. He said that in a typical 10 1/2 hour shift he writes approximately 60 tickets ( worth about $150 each)(I have watched this crew work and they are easily staying under 10 minutes per stop and in some cases don't even turn their lights off before leaving one and pouncing the next). ISP can make a claim that appears on the surface as if it is revenue negative since they get less than $10 per ticket; However, the fine money going to the counties offsets money that the state would otherwise be giving the counties, so in reality it is revenue positive even though they can play games to make it look revenue negative.

    Math time:

    60 tickets at $150 per day is $9000.

    $9000 per day is $45,000 per week.

    $45K per week for 48 weeks ( allowing 4 weeks vacation which the state does NOT give) is $2,160,000 per year.

    Now, if we allow $75K for the officer, $15K to cover one half of the cost of the car, and I will be really generous and allow $100 per day for gasoline ($24K for the year), and $10 per ticket for the courthouse staffer handling the ticket ($144K per year), after these high estimates of expenses (258K total), we are left with a meager $1,902,000 to the good--for one officer.

    Please explain how we are expected to believe there is no profit here.

    Lmao.none of those numbers are real.
     

    txinvestigator

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    My bad, I meant Texas transportation code Sec. 546.
    Might want to do your so-called research on Sec. 547 while you're at it bud.






    That's sooooo funny right there.
    Tell that to everyone who pays the outrageous fines that comes with a ticket.
    Millions of $$$$ is collected every year that goes to the counties & state.

    It's obvious you're not a lawyer at all or understand the intents of it...........good luck with that one.
    I haven't been stopped in years & when I was (in the past) I never got a ticket.

    Illegal use of emergency lights & sirens in a traffic stop, that is NOT an emergency is illegal. That simple.
    I'm not going to debate someone who doesn't understand the spirit of the law & how it works.


    .
    Well Scooter, you are just flat wrong about most of that, except that I am not a lawyer. Show us some case law about emergency lights and sirens being illegal to use for traffic stops.
     

    Axxe55

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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I didn't study budgets in any state but Texas. Traffic enforcement costs more than it generates. Many tickets are dismissed, given deferrals, defensive driving, etc.

    And I don't believe anyone is averaging 60 tickets a shift. Even 60 contacts is doubtful.

    And if he hits on one traffic stop a day, that someone has an outstanding warrant or some other problems that he has to arrest the driver, well then he's tied up for several hours with paperwork and getting the driver transported and booked into custody.
     

    66vette

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    $45K per week for 48 weeks ( allowing 4 weeks vacation which the state does NOT give) is $2,160,000 per year.

    Now, if we allow $75K for the officer, $15K to cover one half of the cost of the car, and I will be really generous and allow $100 per day for gasoline ($24K for the year), and $10 per ticket for the courthouse staffer handling the ticket ($144K per year), after these high estimates of expenses (258K total), we are left with a meager $1,902,000 to the good--for one officer.

    Please explain how we are expected to believe there is no profit here.
    I was wrong when I said millions of $$$.
    I should have said BILLIONS of $$$



    Nobody is running tickets like that 5 days a week.

    There are speed traps set up from time to time, but to do that math as a 5 day per week, 52 week per year equation is unreasonable. At least for anywhere I’ve ever been in Texas.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Multiply the above quote by 1000's of officers issuing tickets every week regardless of how many, it's very clear that the amount of positive revenue coming in is staggering.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Lmao.none of those numbers are real.
    1. I took the officer at his word and observed conduct that supported his assertion.

    2. I deliberately erred on the side of over-estimating costs.

    3. The rest is simply sorting through the numbers.

    4. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking i give a **** what you believe
     

    Axxe55

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    I was wrong when I said millions of $$$.
    I should have said BILLIONS of $$$




    Multiply the above quote by 1000's of officers issuing tickets every week regardless of how many, it's very clear that the amount of positive revenue coming in is staggering.

    So your assertion is that officers do nothing but write traffic tickets and nothing else?

    Seriously?
     

    Axxe55

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    1. I took the officer at his word and observed conduct that supported his assertion.

    2. I deliberately erred on the side of over-estimating costs.

    3. The rest is simply sorting through the numbers.

    4. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking i give a **** what you believe

    This here's Texas, not Indiana! :spank:
     

    IndyDave1776

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    So your assertion is that officers do nothing but write traffic tickets and nothing else?

    Seriously?
    I don't know about Texas but in Indiana, aside from a small number of detectives, a state trooper's job is to write tickets. Nothing much else barring extreme situations like a prison riot.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    As for deferrals, I don't know how Texas dies it but in Indiana it is exactly double the cost it would be otherwise. I did not build any accounting for that into my math earlier. You also pay through the nose for defensive driving.
     
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