ATF jacked me up!!!!

[CZ guy]

..... I for one would pay an extra tax to keep them out on the street fighting crime and not being an overpaid traffic enforcement officer. I wonder how LEO's can actually keep getting up to go to work knowing that they are not being utilized as peace officers.

Oh yeah, sure... because we ALL know the bank robbers, home invaders, burglars, thieves, dope smugglers and kidnappers WALK during their dastardly deeds! Someday maybe I'll tell you how many bad-guys I caught due to traffic violations versus those on foot.

Since the beginning of record keeping, car accidents have cost the economy more than ALL the burglaries and thefts COMBINED. As an example, my neighbor's home was recently burglarized and a computer, some games, and miscellaneous other items were stolen. A whopping $2,000 of merchandise gone. (And NO the crook didn't walk to and from the scene.) The guy that rear-ended my car in a low-speed collision, caused $4200 in damage.

Oh, but traffic enforcement is just revenue enhancement..... and I didn't even touch on the money loss due to personal injuries and time lost at work. I notice it is popular now to start squalling about every time someone got stopped by the police and what a jerk the cop was. May I start a thread about the electrical contractor that ripped me off or the thief over at the car dealership that wanted to sell me new struts when none were needed? I used a plumber once that picked his nose and licked his fingers afterward, is that proper to use when I lump ALL plumbers as no-class cavemen?

I have no intention or hope of ever changing the minds of those bent on being anti-cop/government. I just enjoy reading how close minded they normally are. Now, you are free to go lick your fingers.

 

[kryten67]

A cop with a sense of humor? Thats new. I was making a suggestion on how to better utilize your services. Its enlightnening to hear your views on how many criminals you've locked up on traffic stops. Do you have any real numbers that I can look at about how many criminals are stopped on traffic infractions, while I'm picking my nose and eating my boogers...LOL While picking my nose I found this interesting statistic for those who want to know if your traffic stop is for safety or for revenue..http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2009-01/evidence-traffic-tickets-aren’t-just-about-road-safety

 

[robocop10mm]

That may be the intent, but the net effect is usually just revenue generation. Random speed zones, inconsistent criteria, decidedly inconsistent enforcement, and stoplights timed to encourage speeding seem to reinforce this.

I will not deny there is a revenue generation component that may well be significant in cities. TX DOT has rules governing speed limits. Before establishing a speed limit on anything but a Prima Fascia road (70mph highway or commercial/residential zone), a traffic survey must be done. The speed limit can be set at 80% of the average speed on the road. The theory is the drivers will tend to drive at or near the appropriate speed. Inconsistant enforcement is a good thing (IMHO) as drivers should not know when and where the enforcement officers are so they comply with the law. The Feds give money to encourage proper timing of traffic lights to save fuel. If the lights appear to be timed to encourage speeding, you should contact your local authorities to inquire about getting them timed properly to improve flow.

There is also no neat linear correlation between exceeding the posted speed limit and risk. The common philosophy in America is to base the speed limit on worst-case conditions for the worst drivers (how many straight, 5-degree 45 MPH offramps from 70 MPH roads onto 55 MPH service roads have you seen?) rather than basing them on average drivers and average conditions. If you don't know to slow down for a 60 degree 100m radius turn on a 70 MPH highway at noon when the road is dry and visibility is perfect, basing conditions on midnight fog and black ice will not help.

Once again there is a TX DOT standard for these situations. The yellow sign with black numbers posted on the off ramp and entering curves are not speed limit signs. They are not enforceable as speed limits (that might come as a surprise to some). They are advisory signs giving a "suggested speed". There is a standard to establish those numbers also. The critical curve speed (the maximum speed under ideal conditions) must be calculated. This calculation involves cooeficient of friction and radius of the curve. The "advisory" sign can be set at 1/2 the critical curve speed, rounded down to the nearest 5mph.

Of course, it could be argued that the average American is too distracted when driving, too self-righteous, and too separated from the consequences of their mistakes. The plethora of stupid road signs and the dumbed-down nature of our laws is a consequence of our driving culture.

I will not argue the Nanny State aspect of this statement. We are our own worst enemies in this aspect. Law suits have driven everyone including Government to post huge numbers of signs.

I would like to see police departments and the highway patrol funded well enough that they do not depend on citations for any sizeable chunk of their revenue. I would like to see a real emphasis on actual safety enforcement (ex: citations for tailgating, reckless driving, failure to yield, and other legitimate safety hazards) rather than the current shameless "revenue rangering".

I would love to have more help at work, and get a bigger paycheck, but taxes are high enough. There are regulations about how much revenue a municipality can raise from traffic enforcement (1/3 of the budget) any money above that goes directly to the State. Anyone remember Selma? They pretty much went away after that law was passed. The way the law concerning "tail gating" is currently worded, it is difficult to get a conviction w/o a collision. There is no distance requirement, one must simply keep a safe and assured distance from the car in front of you to avoid a collision. No whistle, no foul. Reckless driving is difficult to prove. Generally it takes three hazerdous violations in one episode to make that charge (and reckless driving carries jail time as a possible punishment). Fail to yield is most commonly enforced as a result of a collision (the damage has already been done). Much more difficult to enforce in the absense of a collision. We actively enforce the "agressive driving" kinds of violations including following too closely, speeding (in heavier traffic situations), fail to signal lane change (when associated with unsafe, agressive, repeated lane changes).

It is difficult to separate governmental policy (often times based on the need for revenue) from the officer's desire to make the streets safer for everyone. Not all officers can see the difference. There are the drones that go forth and do the bidding of their keepers and there are those that try to find a way to "make a difference". Traffic units are numbers driven. Officers that do not perform are replaced. To keep the sweet shift some officers will simply generate numbers. What they forget (or what the bosses forget) is quotas are ILLEGAL! I wrote 20,000 violations in 5 years. About 70% were warnings. They cannot bitch anout the number of citations vs. warnings because doing so leaves them open to prosecution for violating the quota law. They cannot say I must write one ticket a day. That would be a quota. In the number game, tickets and warnings are equal.

On a personal note I have never written a ticket for less than 15 MPH over the limit, ever. If you find that opressive, you have issues. My pet peave is red lights. Running red lights kills more people than speeding (in my experience). I WILL write a red light ticket (even to school bus drivers, perhaps especially to school bus drivers).

 

[DCortez]

I'll go ahead and add a little more to this. Three things I HATE to do is run a red light, run a stop sign, or speed in a school zone. Those are unforgiveable sins in my book.

After that "silent" cop stopped me, two things happened. One, I stopped being in hurry. Two, I started using my blinker 100% of the time. My wife couldn't be happier.

I'm not anti-cop. I'm anti-getting into my business. I choose not to socialize with cops, and to be honest, I don't overly care for actors, salesmen, or people that do things that are illegal (I don't care if they are illegally applying ketchup to a hotdog, I stay away).

If I had my druthers, I'd make quotas illegal (btw, I was in the wrong when I was ticketed), not let cops work more than 40 hours a week (get a different job if you want to get rich), and if the 40 hour work week wasn't enough to calm these guys down, start giving them more vacation time.

We need these guys fresh, more relaxed, and in a better frame of mind. They are, afterall, servants of the public, not judge/jury/executioner. Joe Campos Torres anyone?

 

[40Arpent]

I'm not anti-cop. ....
We need these guys fresh, more relaxed, and in a better frame of mind.

Sure would have been nice had you prefaced some of your other comments with this more congenial attitude.

 

[robocop10mm]

Quotas are already illegal in Texas.

 

[DCortez]

Sure would have been nice had you prefaced some of your other comments with this more congenial attitude.

I said in my intro I was a grumpy old man

Quotas illegal? Is that like premarital sex? Not supposed to, but ...

 

[robocop10mm]

We got into it with a Sgt. some years back. We had to go to the County Attorney's office before the Sgt. would back down. Recently we had a Captain who was demoted for trying to institute a quota system.
Are there quotas in some agencies? Very likely.

We used to have quotas. Now we can write as many tickets as we want.


That's a joke, btw.

 

[CZ guy]

We used to have quotas. Now we can write as many tickets as we want.
That's a joke, btw.

My agency didn't have "quotas", it was an operational goal that we would strive to achieve each day.

Being a dedicated 'accident & traffic enforcement unit' for almost 26 years made me realize just how important preventing the needless slaughter of ourselves really was. Some days I went from wreck to wreck to wreck, cleaning up after drivers that let their irresponsible attitudes affect their driving. And, I was PROUD of the job I did. I could care less if some fella that thought he was too important to obey traffic laws liked me or the job I did. I made it my goal to be a thorn in every aggressive driver's side! Since the laws are set up to hit you in your wallet and not upside your head or taking away your freedom of movement, I did not mind making those that deserved it pay up. Guys, when you've cleaned up as many mangled bodies as our unit did, yeah, you get an attitude about it. The bonus to the job was the traffic stop that held a genuine bad-guy fresh off his latest felony deed. (For some reason, morons just CANNOT obey traffic laws during a get-away, which makes the job easy sometimes!)

Admit it or not, because your mother, wife and kids drive the roads too, I'll bet you are GLAD there is someone out there taking care of "problems". You just never realize it is YOU sometimes.

 

[DCortez]

If you have seen as many arteries as I've seen, you'd never eat fried chicken again
If you have seen as many cavities as I've seen, you'd floss after every meal
If you have seen as many typos as I've seen, you'd use speel chek (lol)

I could go on, but it's not Sunday.

 

[Hoji]

Oh, I would have thought you'd be able to handle dealing with your firends and family all by your completely independent self.

You are kinda being a d#$k. Really.

 

[Hoji]

If you intend to contest a citation, you do not want to be memorable. You want to be the person I cannot remember at all three months later.

This is the key to contesting traffic citations.

 

[whit128]

I would love to have more help at work, and get a bigger paycheck, but taxes are high enough. There are regulations about how much revenue a municipality can raise from traffic enforcement (1/3 of the budget) any money above that goes directly to the State. Anyone remember Selma? They pretty much went away after that law was passed. The way the law concerning "tail gating" is currently worded, it is difficult to get a conviction w/o a collision. There is no distance requirement, one must simply keep a safe and assured distance from the car in front of you to avoid a collision. No whistle, no foul. Reckless driving is difficult to prove. Generally it takes three hazerdous violations in one episode to make that charge (and reckless driving carries jail time as a possible punishment). Fail to yield is most commonly enforced as a result of a collision (the damage has already been done). Much more difficult to enforce in the absense of a collision. We actively enforce the "agressive driving" kinds of violations including following too closely, speeding (in heavier traffic situations), fail to signal lane change (when associated with unsafe, agressive, repeated lane changes).

It is difficult to separate governmental policy (often times based on the need for revenue) from the officer's desire to make the streets safer for everyone. Not all officers can see the difference. There are the drones that go forth and do the bidding of their keepers and there are those that try to find a way to "make a difference". Traffic units are numbers driven. Officers that do not perform are replaced. To keep the sweet shift some officers will simply generate numbers. What they forget (or what the bosses forget) is quotas are ILLEGAL! I wrote 20,000 violations in 5 years. About 70% were warnings. They cannot bitch anout the number of citations vs. warnings because doing so leaves them open to prosecution for violating the quota law. They cannot say I must write one ticket a day. That would be a quota. In the number game, tickets and warnings are equal.

On a personal note I have never written a ticket for less than 15 MPH over the limit, ever. If you find that opressive, you have issues. My pet peave is red lights. Running red lights kills more people than speeding (in my experience). I WILL write a red light ticket (even to school bus drivers, perhaps especially to school bus drivers).

There is no "prosecution for violating the quaota law", they can only be removed from their position as there is no criminal penalty.
sec. 720.002 trc

 

[robocop10mm]

OK, so you cannot send them to jail but losing a $100,000/year job is pretty steep punishment.

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

Oh yeah, sure... because we ALL know the bank robbers, home invaders, burglars, thieves, dope smugglers and kidnappers WALK during their dastardly deeds! Someday maybe I'll tell you how many bad-guys I caught due to traffic violations versus those on foot.

Since the beginning of record keeping, car accidents have cost the economy more than ALL the burglaries and thefts COMBINED. As an example, my neighbor's home was recently burglarized and a computer, some games, and miscellaneous other items were stolen. A whopping $2,000 of merchandise gone. (And NO the crook didn't walk to and from the scene.) The guy that rear-ended my car in a low-speed collision, caused $4200 in damage.

Oh, but traffic enforcement is just revenue enhancement..... and I didn't even touch on the money loss due to personal injuries and time lost at work. I notice it is popular now to start squalling about every time someone got stopped by the police and what a jerk the cop was. May I start a thread about the electrical contractor that ripped me off or the thief over at the car dealership that wanted to sell me new struts when none were needed? I used a plumber once that picked his nose and licked his fingers afterward, is that proper to use when I lump ALL plumbers as no-class cavemen?

I have no intention or hope of ever changing the minds of those bent on being anti-cop/government. I just enjoy reading how close minded they normally are. Now, you are free to go lick your fingers.

I have a suspicion that if the maximum collection for any traffic offense was reduced to one dollar, then the emphasis would shift to serving the many thousands of issued warrants for parole violations.